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The U.S.-Backed Government In Ukraine Is Starting To Lose The Civil War

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War In Ukraine - Photo by Heinrich-Böll-Stiftung from Berlin, DeutschlandThe mainstream media in the U.S. is being very quiet about this, but the truth is that the U.S.-backed government in Kiev is starting to lose the civil war.  This week, the separatists captured the very important railway junction of Debaltseve despite the fact that a ceasefire is supposed to be in place.  Buoyed by a constant influx of Russian weapons and supplies, the separatists have gained a clear upper hand in the conflict.  But this was not supposed to happen.  When protest groups that were funded, organized and advised by organizations in the United States violently overthrew the democratically elected Ukrainian government, the Obama administration was hoping that the Ukrainian people would rapidly embrace their new pro-western leaders.  Instead, the nation was plunged into a very bitter civil war that could go on for many years.  And as the battlefield stands right now, the government in Kiev will probably be forced to concede even more territory in the months ahead as more weapons and fighters arrive from Russia.  The Obama administration could decide to intervene by shipping large amounts of weapons and supplies to the Ukrainian government, but that could turn the civil war in Ukraine into a proxy war between the United States and Russia.  And the thing about proxy wars is that sometimes they turn into real wars.

Earlier this month, the world rejoiced when a ceasefire between the government in Kiev and the separatists was announced.

But it didn’t last long.

As I mentioned above, this week the separatists took full control of Debaltseve.  The following is how CNN described the situation on the ground…

The scene of devastation is staggering in Debaltseve, the town at the heart of the battle between Ukrainian forces and pro-Russian separatists in recent days.

Barely a house is unscathed by shelling. Elderly civilians trapped by the fighting still cower in basements. After most Ukrainian forces pulled out Wednesday, the separatists are now in control.

It’s obvious there’s been a seismic shift on the battlefield. But it’s not yet clear what the Ukrainian withdrawal means for the shaky peace deal that came into force Sunday.

Will the separatists halt their offensive, satisfied with the territory they hold? Or will they be emboldened to push for more?

And of course this is all part of a much larger trend.  The separatists have been winning new territory for months.

I want to share with you a couple of maps.  This first map shows what the conflict looked like last summer.  As you can see, the territory held by the separatists was mostly limited to areas around the cities of Luhansk and Donetsk…

Civil War In Ukraine 2014

This next map shows what the conflict looks like today.  As you can see, the separatists have captured an enormous amount of territory…

Civil War In Ukraine 2015

So have you heard about this from the mainstream media in the United States?

If not, why not?

Could it be that we aren’t supposed to know that the U.S.-backed government in Kiev is actually losing the war?

Needless to say, this would never have been possible without the direct involvement of Russia.  Publicly, the Russians are denying that they are funding, supplying and arming the separatists.  But everyone knows that they are.  The Russians consider the civil war in Ukraine to be a fundamental matter of national security.  And it is hard to blame them.  Just imagine how the U.S. government would be responding if there was a civil war in Canada.

So with massive Russian backing, the separatists have been able to turn the tide of the war very much in their favor.  The following is an excerpt from a recent Business Insider article

The battlefield gains by the separatists throughout the east of the country can be attributed to the constant inflow of Russian weaponry. In Nov. 2014, Russia moved a column of tanks and artillery into eastern Ukraine drastically changing the battlefield calculus.

In addition to tanks and artillery, Russia has provided the separatists with arms ranging from grenade launchers and mortars to anti-tank weapons and anti-aircraft guns.

As a result, Russian-backed rebels have huge military advantages over Ukraine. Crucially, the rebels receive logistics and armaments from the Russian military while also being able to take refuge in Russia during a Ukrainian assault.

This is not how the Obama administration wanted things to go.

And now the Obama administration is faced with a choice.  Either they do nothing and watch the government in Kiev continue to lose ground, or they arm the government in Kiev and risk turning the conflict into a proxy war with Russia.

So what is Obama going to do?

It is hard to say.  But there is little doubt about what the hawks in Congress want to do

On Capitol Hill, however, lawmakers on both sides of the aisle had a clear message Thursday for the president: arm Ukraine.

“It is time to give Ukraine the ability to defend itself,” Sen. Kelly Ayotte, R-N.H., said. “It is past due.”

Sen. Jack Reed, D-R.I., top Democrat on the armed services committee, said the “key here is to give the Ukrainians the ability to defend itself and to get back to a political solution.”

Sen. Bill Nelson, D-Fla., said the non-lethal aid the U.S. already is sending “is not enough when you are facing the Russian bear.”

But do we really want to start a proxy war?

As I mentioned above, proxy wars can ultimately lead to real wars.

And in the case of the United States and Russia, a real war could mean the use of nuclear weapons.  For much more on this, please see a couple of my previous articles…

-“10 Signs That Russia Is Preparing To Fight (And Win) A Nuclear War With The United States

-“While Obama Snoozes, Russia Is Preparing For Nuclear War With The United States

We should have never interfered with the democratically elected government in Ukraine in the first place.

And now that war is raging in Ukraine, I fear that the United States and Russia have been put on a collision course which will end very, very badly someday.

So what do you think?  Please feel free to add to the discussion by posting a comment below…

  • jaxon64

    Putin has played this like a chess master. Whatever ones feelings on putin and who started this etc…nobody can deny that Putin has outmaneuvered Obama and placed the US in a non-winnable position. We need to cut our losses and DO NOT send armaments to the Ukraine–this would be viewed as an act of war.
    Europe needs to step in and stop this one, they have the most to lose with a major war starting in their backyard.
    PS: also worth noting, while America quibbles about ISIS and tries to secretively overthrow Assad in Syria, Turkey has switched allegiances from NATO to joining with Russia on many policy and political issues.

    • JustSayin’

      Not only has Turkey sided with Russia – China has also. And to-date we still have no idea what Merkel and Hollande discussed “privately” w/Russia when they met last week. Was a deal made? Are they siding with Russia silently also? U.S. is done.

      • jaxon64

        Agreed, I find the fact that Hollande and Merkel went “over Obamas head” and straight to Putin for closed door meetings and leaving the US out of the loop very interesting.
        Will Greece default its way into a BRICS nation? Will it be Germany that says, screw the US and its globalist plans–Germany is still very nationalist and Europe is getting tired of Washington it appears.
        The dollar is creaming the Euro right now and we are seeing the euro value ( which was almost 2x that of the dollar) at less than the dollar for the first time ever–this has got to tick off Hollande whose French govt was already complaining about America’s free ride of the reserve currency—now we can print billions a month and the dollar is still worth more than the Euro–I’d be ticked if I were a Euro nation. America buys all of their labor, inventiveness, engineering and quality craftsmanship with fiat currency that we ( the Fed) makes out of thin air—wow…
        The point is, we may be seeing a turning point where some of our allies may start wondering if they are on the right side of things……

      • Avner

        Don’t forget Greece is being courted by Russia too. This is a US started currency war and boy it’s really looking well conceived isn’t it?

    • Gay Veteran

      our European vassals will do as they are told

    • Georgie45

      USA along with UK and Russia has a legal obligation to secure the territorial integrity and the security of Ukraine, according to 1994 Budapest Memorandum. This is the reason why Ukraine decided to forfeit it’s huge nuclear arsenal.

      • Gay Veteran

        maybe the neo-cons in DC should of thought of that before sponsoring a coup in Ukraine

  • jaxon64

    Putin has played this like a chess master. Whatever ones feelings on putin and who started this etc…nobody can deny that Putin has outmaneuvered Obama and placed the US in a non-winnable position. We need to cut our losses and DO NOT send armaments to the Ukraine–this would be viewed as an act of war.
    Europe needs to step in and stop this one, they have the most to lose with a major war starting in their backyard.
    PS: also worth noting, while America quibbles about ISIS and tries to secretively overthrow Assad in Syria, Turkey has switched allegiances from NATO to joining with Russia on many policy and political issues.

  • Seen2013

    “This is not how the Obama administration wanted things to go.”

    I wouldn’t bank on that:
    First, Obama and Putin are both under the influence of BIS if memory serves me correctly was one of the Nuclear Summit Conference’s sponsors that included war-games not far removed from the war-game “Diplomacy”.
    Look up Diplomacy Standard map:
    Spring of 1901 (S01)
    Germany:
    A Mun-Sil
    A Ber-Pru
    F Kie-Den

    You send in your orders to the Game-Master or Judge who posts the results of the move in Play By Mail PBM or Play By E-mail PBEM.
    The West V East is as artificial as Left V Right… BIS and other Supranational institutions thanks to that summit already have the key leader’s responses to the crisis, so they will benefit from it unlike a Diplomacy GM/Judge who has no further role in Diplomacy.

    Second, Ukraine and Syria in extension are already proxy wars. Academia off shoots and Russian parallel have been operating in Ukraine particularly for more than a year. This ignores ISIS is another CIA, MI6, Mossad, and company created, trained, and equipped outfit that the boots on the ground is actually aimed at Syrian regime change not ISIS.
    Ukraine, Syria, and Iran are already stated red-lines for Russo-Sino with China’s pledge to support Russia and vice versa also includes Pakistan and North Korea. These proxy wars are in the process as currency wars and trade wars are rife between the BIS the boss of every national central bank sends out its marching orders.
    Both sides of the equation are preparing the populace for major war, and it doesn’t help Rand Corporation around 2008-09 assessed brushfires wars did not create a suitable Keynesian multiplier to spending, and it would be better to pick a fight with Russia and/or China… After all, Keynesian economists point to world war II as the data point proving their economic and centrally planned economies.

    Third, if Germany leaves the Euro and moves to Eurasian, the plank giving pause is also removed. This plank boils down to Greece’s decision. Eurocrisis forces Germany’s hand whichever way it goes; it is the right crisis Germany could shift eastward.
    Also, Greece is already accusing Germany of being Nazis, and Ukraine’s Kiev is Nazis… Where have we seen that before? Politics can be chaotic, but domestic pales to geopolitics.

    World War III seems to be the goal, and I’m reminded of other noble prize winners who end up doing dumb crap later on.

  • Hoha Tatt

    The Devil Monster is haunting all of us.

  • Kerry Lee

    As far as I can see the so called “separatists” are really freedom fighters who want to live in their own land free from evil tyrants in Kiev. This is the will of ALL the people in Eastern Ukraine, not just some small faction. This is no different than what the Americans founding fathers did 200+ years ago. The question is why is America opposing this and siding with evil?

    • Gay Veteran

      no war profits without war

  • Avner

    “We should have never interfered with the democratically elected government in Ukraine in the first place.”

    No question. However, the American public likes liars and likes being lied to.
    If you are a left winger, the Ukrainian Neo Nazi’s are soooo cool… and if you are a right winger/Tea Party/Neocon, then Putin invaded Ukraine, etc.

    The root cause of this was that we overthrew a very corrupt but pretty harmless government there in Viktor Yanukovich’s government and replaced it with Neo Nazi’s like Arseniy Yatsenuk. There are pictures of the Ukie’s posing with swastikas and painting their helmets like Waffen-SS.

    I find it very difficult to have any sympathy for Ukraine’s blight when they chose the path of war. It’s not only “democracy” when they agree with our government.

    Putin is a thug, but at least he looks out for his country and people. I’ll leave this post with this: Who is trying to destroy your rights, take your property, and make you a modern day serf? Obama and his masters, or Vladimir Putin? Food for thought for all the people who are up in arms about “We need to arm Ukraine” “Putin invaded Ukraine so we need to go to war” etc…

  • Roy Smith

    All that Russia has to do is separate the Eastern Ukrainian Oblasts of Donetsk,Kharkiv,& Luhansk(which your map seems to show as already happening),& the Southern Ukrainian Oblasts of Dnipropetrovsk,Kherson,Mykolaiv,Odessa,& Zaporizhia,leave the rest of the Ukraine to the EU banker vultures,& then whats left of the Ukraine will crawl back to the Russian sphere of influence(probably followed by Greece).

  • bert

    russia will be taking all the countries back it let go 25 years ago with the blessing of those who really run the west. the west is pushing russia and china to nuke the us and europe at some point in the near future. the us is disrupting a formerly stable middle east for a reason and it ain’t for the arab spring (what a crock that is). whilst the elite in ameriKa are preparing for that nuke strike the ameriKan masses are enjoying their bread and circuses and still voting for the jerks of the two main political parties which will insure that nuke strike and the COMPLETE loss of our freedoms. it’s just that plain and simple! when will you people ever wake up???

    • Gay Veteran

      “russia will be taking all the countries back it let go 25 years ago with the blessing of those who really run the west…”

      pure BS, if Russia wanted Ukraine they would be in Kiev in 2 days

  • grgy

    Why does every article I read clearly indicate that Russia is supplying troops and weapons to the eastern militias? As far as I understand, there hasn’t been a shred of physical evidence provided to support such a conclusion.

  • putin tame

    Starting to lose the war? LOL
    How many people in history have ever invaded Russia and won?
    Thats right! Zero (0) Idiots!!! LOL

    • Giorgi

      Russia was actually conquered by Mongols. It did lose it’s fair share of wars(a couple with Sweden and Poland, Crimean, Russo-Japanese, World war One). WWII was narrowly won by Soviet Union, not Russia(People should really start to see difference between these two) So they are not invincible ubermensch no matter what some geniuses who never read history believe.

  • Gay Veteran

    “…The following is an excerpt from a recent Business Insider article…
    The battlefield gains by the separatists throughout the east of the country can be attributed to the constant inflow of Russian weaponry. In Nov. 2014, Russia moved a column of tanks and artillery into eastern Ukraine drastically changing the battlefield calculus….”

    and WHERE is the EVIDENCE??? we have the most sophisticated spy satellites in the world and yet no photos have been released. we live in the age of the “selfie” and yet no photos have been released. But the one photo that was released (by a U.S. senator who got it from the neo-nazis in Kiew) was actually years old and taken in Georgia

  • Steve3

    Anyone that would embrace the US/EU just needs to see what they have done under the guise of ‘freedom’ to Iraq, Afghanistan, Lybia etc.You would have to be nuts to go along with them

  • redtroika

    So you get your info from CNN and expect us to believe what you say about Russia? Really now.

  • Nobody

    We have no business in the Ukraine and assuredly would react as vigorously (the people if not our Faux Leadership) if the Russians were to begin placing military forces or forces aligned with them in Mexico…

    The interests of Billionaires and their Trans National Corporations are hardly the interests of the American people.. While they remain ever happy to spend US Blood and Fortune to further theirs.

    The Russian were a worthy enemy during the Cold War.. fierce and capable.. They also honorably brought it to an end.. We provided no “Marshall Plan” as was a moral imperative to lift the lives of Russians and all Eastern Europeans having quit their Soviet Union..

    It is time to work on own house.. clean up our own yard.. Leaving the people of Eastern Europe to resolve theirs.

    Many of us spent our working lives to both stop the expansion of the Communists and defend the American People and the West from Soviet Agrression..

    We accomplished our mission…. Be assures Saint Reagan deserved the Nobel Peace Prize.. which he never recieved.. Also be Assured Gorbachev’s Nobel Peace Prize was well deserved and he placed himself at Great Hazard to bring the Cold War to a Peaceful End.. Putin very much was a part of all of that..

    We dishonor all those Servicemen and Officers who died (in excess of 100,000) just in the West in the Service during the “Cold War”.

    There is no excuse nor any justifiable reason for US to be in Conflict with Russia and the Russian People.. Lord knows we need to focus on resolving the problems in our own house.. and defending liberty on our own shores..

    • zeuss

      just to remind you…

  • naked swimmer

    What’s going to happen is eventually some crazy will press the button. When other nations see a missile(s) on their display they’re going to launch their nukes too. More nations will see nukes on their screens and they’ll launch theirs. Many years ago the bombs were 1000 times more powerful than the 2 dropped on Japan. The blasts will cause the Yellowstone supervolcano to explode. Also bombs 1000 times more powerful (probably much worse now) x multiple hits in one area will bump the Earth from its orbit and the sun’s gravity will gently pull it in a spiral toward the sun. One example is Russia has planned multiple hits for America + other nations could bomb us also. If anyone doesn’t believe the Earth would lose its orbit then you obviously don’t know Newton’s laws of motion very well.

    All it takes is one lunatic then we’re toast. Let’s hope there’s space colonies independent from Earth’s orbit before then. Biosphere 2 was a failure but they urgently need to try again with
    today’s technology. If the elite really were smart they would be spending tons of $ on space research, but then most people are only intelligent in certain areas. Steve Jobs was a computer genius but too dumb to eat certain foods to cure his cancer. No I don’t want the elite surviving but space research is expensive.

    • Infoquest

      China doesn´t need that many nukes, just a few to cover the southern coasts of the US (which would be devastated by powerful storms when nuclear winter happens) and send a few powerful bombs against Yellowstone…
      The Yellowstone explosion would also trigger the New Madrid fault line and vise versa…

      • naked swimmer

        Unfortunately an enemy will launch as many at once as they can because they know we’ll try to shoot them down & retaliate.

      • Bob

        Ohhh China (A wholly owned Transnational Corporation) is sooo scary…

        Not!!!

        Let’s see…

        80% of all Industrial Capacity of China is below Three Gorges Dam.. Our Allies in the Region S. Korea and Japan both have the Capacity to wreck Three Gorges Dam in but a few days maybe a week maximum.. (now you know why they build empty cities).

        The corresponding flood would set back China 100 years..

        Those Chinese in power know this.. They are not going to attack their best customers and the people who keep them in Rice, Fish Soup and Cadillacs.

        They have enough problems coming up internally … Like 75 million more men than women over the next 30 years..

        Those in power there will be lucky to get out with their hides from those guys when they discover there are no women for them to be with. The numbers are a disaster coming on like a freight train..

        The people are treated like Crap in China.. They will not tolerate that for
        much longer and all the outsider threat nonsense.. is not going to work in the end.

  • Michael Dubin

    Michael, the links you provided from Business Insider show no real proof of Russian weapons or troop movements into Ukraine. I’d like to see satellite photos or videos showing this. If this is true, there is no way that US satellite imagery would not have picked this up. As far as I’m concerned, it’s all heresy.

  • Anonaymous

    So this article is actually siding with Russians? Really? AFTER they occupied Crimea, conducted an illegal referendum and now are trying to break the neighboring country into half? The separatists (in reality paid bandits and mercenaries) control a small portion of what they intended and even that with overwhelming Russian support. US actually has an obligation to provide security to Ukraine according to 1994 Budapest Memorandum. If anything, they are not giving them enough arms.

    • Gay Veteran

      government paid troll, begone!

      • Anonaymous

        Maybe using some actual argument instead of crying “Troll!” would be more “constructive”. Your comment really is indicative of your mind-blowing IQ.

        • Gay Veteran

          hey Einstein, you presented ZERO evidence to back up your BS.
          so yes, you are a government paid troll

    • Bob

      Russia is a major world power.. Like the US it has Spheres of Influence..

      The Crimea and Eastern Europe fits into what Brazil?.. We (which I am ok with for the most part) will wax anybody who messes in our Southern Back Yard (to include the people who live there) which includes North, Central and South America just for starters.. The Pacific, China Sea, Taiwan… uh…Atlantic, Western Europe..Mediterranean…Oh and the Middle East.. (Iran is a thorn about to be removed by Israel ). (A State created in no small part by the US and first recognized in the modern era as such).

      Yeah …. really Russia protecting the Crimea and Black Lake..(Black Sea) is “Shocking”

      Not!!…

  • Bosnian Serb

    I will not blame Michael for lack of knowledge on what is going on there because the Infowars is posting videos which they claim to be Ukrainian while news agency is Russian. The reason for this is Cyrillic Alphabet or inability to read this alphabet.
    1) Hundreds of Russian volunteers are crossing border along with other volunteers from all over the world ( China and Brazil, Spain, Serbia, France, Romania, Bulgaria, Poland, Italy, Germany) but they make up only 5-10 percent of men power in Novorussian units.
    2) Remember that regular Ukrainian army joined local resistance. Almost an entire army stationed in east of this country refused to shoot at their parents, grandparents, or cousins.
    3) Rebels are not Russians but mostly Russian speaking Ukrainians.
    4) Why are they mad? What had happened to the most popular parties in Ukraine like Party of Regions. You think they suddenly lost support? No, they were violently overthrown so that people in East Ukraine do not have a single political party representing them since Maidan.
    5) Special forces and regular army that joined resistance had done so with all the military equipment. There was a famous video where resistance forces are entering military base with 300 tanks in it.
    6) Commanders of resistance forces are military veterans of many wars such as one in Bosnia or Chechenia. Most of volunteers are veterans as well. Put is fight this units against any military power in this world and I will bet on them.
    7) America already sent weapons and men. 150 Americans already perished in Ukraine along with hundreds of Poles. There are dozen videos showing American military equipment. Look it up for yourself.
    8) There are hundreds of videos showing captured Ukrainian tanks, weapons, Grad systems, AKs. After every battle resistance fighters take videos of their trophies. Now, for one year Ukrainian army did not take one major victory and you can count how much equipment was captured from them.

  • Tatiana Covington

    So Kiev is losing… BFD.

  • A Dodgy Bloke

    Putin has been playing a cagey game supplying the rebels with equipment, advisers, intelligence and troops. While lying about what he’s doing and having Russian funded news outlets like RT and the new one Sputnik spew the line that the rebels are doing this all on their own. Anybody paying attention to this conflict knows that’s bull. NATO is not going to war over Ukraine Putin has BHO’s number, BHO talks tough but wont follow though Vladimir knows that, I know that and most of you knows that. The West Europeans just want to the whole mess to go away, and the East Europeans have no clout. Ukraine is bankrupt, corrupt, and has no hope of entering the EU. The EU has enough political and economic basket cases and doesn’t need one more. This will stagger on until Ukraine collapses, the guy running things now is kicked out, and Vladimir will get somebody in there he can deal with. This will be over by the end of summer.

    • Gay Veteran

      “Putin has been playing a cagey game supplying the rebels with equipment, advisers, intelligence and troops….”

      and what do you think the CIA has been doing? hmmmmmmm

  • Gay Veteran

    hey Einstein, the civil war our war of aggression in Iraq started has resulted in the deaths of over a MILLION civilians

    • Anon

      One million? Seriously? Maybe you should provide some links or evidence as I can hardly find it believable for 30 million Iraq. Plus if you honestly can not see the difference between civil war breaking out as a side effect of USA freeing the country from the brutal dictator(whatever their true motivations were, fact is the Iraq was freed from Hussein) and Russia simply bombing the hell out of Grozny and murdering civilians left and right, you are truly ignorant.

      • Gay Veteran

        you sound like a warmongering apologist for our war of aggression against Iraq.

        “…freeing the country from the brutal dictator….”

        yeah, we freed them, freed them from their lives, and freed millions from their homes as they are now refugees.

        you are truly a psychopath, because only a psychopath would support the war criminals in DC

        • Anon

          And no, I do not agree with Bush’s invasion of Iraq as it set a very dangerous precedent in the world politics. I still think that the nations should be allowed to choose their path and as much as I do not like US meddling in the affairs of other countries, it is unlikely that Hussein would have given the above mentioned to the Iraqis. And I am pretty sure, that far more than million Iraqis DID actually DIE from his dictatorial ambitions during the war with Iran and the Gulf war. At least now there’s a chance for some Iraqis to live the lives they want to choose, while a couple of decades ago, they faced a dilemma of being killed by Iranian chemical gas weapons or blown apart by American bombs.

          • Gay Veteran

            “…And I am pretty sure, that far more than million Iraqis DID actually DIE from his dictatorial ambitions during the war with Iran and the Gulf war…..”

            hey Einstein, AFTER that the U.S. invaded and that led to ANOTHER million dead

          • Gay Veteran

            odd you should mention the Iraq/Iran war, where the U.S. backed Iraq.
            after all, where do you think all those Iraqi chemical weapons came from?

      • Gay Veteran

        based on the original study in the peer reviewed general medical journal The Lancet:

        “…about a million Iraqis have likely been killed since the U.S.-led invasion in 2003…

        A study, published in prestigious medical journal The Lancet, estimated that over 600,000 Iraqis had been killed as a result of the invasion as of July 2006. Iraqis have continued to be killed since then. The death counter provides a rough daily update of this number based on a rate of increase derived from the Iraq Body Count. (See the complete explanation.)

        The estimate that over a million Iraqis have died received independent confirmation from a prestigious British polling agency in January 2008. Opinion Research Business estimated that the death toll between March 2003 and August 2007 was 1,033,000….”

  • infocyde

    If you think Russians are part of, and leading, the Ukrainian “anti-nazi rebels” you are delusional. Also it is just a fact that all of the rest of Eastern Europe is in play, if you don’t believe that again your comments are made in ignorance. The 5 billion dollar quote is so taken out of context, that was 5 billion since the fall of the Soviet Union in which the US had a huge vested interest, as well as the world did, in seeing a stable Ukraine. Russian trolls talk about the NATO build up…remember NATO convinced Ukraine to give up its nuclear weapons and at the time of all the understandings between NATO and the new Russia came into being the USA alone had over 230,000 troops in the European theater. Now there are about 35,000. You claim knowledge but you actually have very little, and your lack of knowledge is enabling the thug Putin to cause a lot of death and destruction. I’m not even saying that Soros and co weren’t involved in Ukraine, they were, but so were the Russians and this is not a counter coup it is an opportunity for a land grab. Just the way it is.

    • Gay Veteran

      “If you think Russians are part of, and leading, the Ukrainian “anti-nazi rebels” you are delusional….”
      WHERE did I say that?
      “…Also it is just a fact that all of the rest of Eastern Europe is in play, if you don’t believe that again your comments are made in ignorance….”
      So Poland, Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania are in play? Sounds like YOU are delusional about these members of NATO.
      “…The 5 billion dollar quote is so taken out of context, that was 5 billion since the fall of the Soviet Union in which the US had a huge vested interest, as well as the world did, in seeing a stable Ukraine….”
      The FACT remains that the U.S. spent$5 BILLION influencing events in Ukraine.
      “… Russian trolls talk about the NATO build up….”
      I never mentioned it.
      “…your lack of knowledge is enabling the thug Putin to cause a lot of death and destruction….”
      Which country sponsored a violent neo-Nazi backed coup against the democratically elected government of Ukraine?
      That would be U.S. And the Kiev Nazis promptly started oppressing the people of eastern Ukraine. But hey, I guess if you lived there you fight back against those trying to KILL you.
      You are just another apologist for American neo-con imperialism which, after Iraq, has started yet another civil war.

      • infocyde

        “So Poland, Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania are in play? Sounds like YOU are delusional about these members of NATO.” – I’m sure all these countries would disagree with you…actually I don’t need to be sure, they all do.

        “The FACT remains that the U.S. spent $5 BILLION influencing events in Ukraine.” – Yes, we don’t know Russian figures but they spent a lot of cash and effort manipulating Ukraine as well. And now with their invasion even more. And remember that 5 billion was from the Cold War’s end on, which actually helped convince the Ukrainians to remove their nukes, which allowed for this Russian invasion, you as a Russia troll should be pleased by this.

        “I never mentioned it. But I do note that it is NATO and the U.S. which is surrounding Russia with military bases. The U.S. has nearly 1000 military bases around the world. How many does Russia have? 1? 2? And who goes halfway around the world to start wars in Iraq, Libya, Syria, etc.? Guess what? It ain’t Russia.” – Remember when the cold war ended, the USA has many more basses and close to 300,000 troops around russia. Now what is it less than 50k? And many of these “1000s” of remaining bases you site are listening post and small logistics stores which are still being downsized. Do a search on BRAC to become more informed.

        “Which country sponsored a violent neo-Nazi backed coup against the democratically elected government of Ukraine?
        That would be U.S. And the Kiev Nazis promptly started oppressing the people of eastern Ukraine. But hey, I guess if you lived there you wouldn’t fight back against those trying to KILL you.” – Again with the false Nazi meme…a few were, just like in Russia many skin head types have nazi symbols, some even fighting against Kiev. P.S. I think the Russians are oppressing Eastern Ukraine more than any government in Kiev did. And how quickly people forget that what Maiden replaced was a Russian puppet government that was corrupt and really hurting East Ukraine’s interest as well.

        You are just another apologist for American neo-con imperialism which, after Iraq, has started yet another civil war. – Not really, but I smell Russian troll all over you…and that is a compliment. If not, you are a total dupe.

        • Gay Veteran

          ME: “So Poland, Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania are in play? Sounds like YOU are delusional about these members of NATO.” YOU: I’m sure all these countries would disagree with you…actually I don’t need to be sure, they all do.
          MY REPLY: I’m sure members of the military industrial complex in those countries would disagree with me.

          ME: “The FACT remains that the U.S. spent $5 BILLION influencing events in Ukraine.” –
          YOU: Yes, we don’t know Russian figures but they spent a lot of cash and effort manipulating Ukraine as well. And now with their invasion even more. And remember that 5 billion was from the Cold War’s end on, which actually helped convince the Ukrainians to remove their nukes, which allowed for this Russian invasion, you as a Russia troll should be pleased by this.
          MY REPLY: INVASION? WHERE are the photos?!?!?!?!? the U.S. has the most advanced spy satellites in the world and yet NO photos of the “invasion”. YOU are a U.S. government troll.

          ME: “I never mentioned it. But I do note that it is NATO and the U.S. which is surrounding Russia with military bases. The U.S. has nearly 1000 military bases around the world. How many does Russia have? 1? 2? And who goes halfway around the world to start wars in Iraq, Libya, Syria, etc.? Guess what? It ain’t Russia.” –
          YOU: Remember when the cold war ended, the USA has many more basses and close to 300,000 troops around russia. Now what is it less than 50k? And many of these “1000s” of remaining bases you site are listening post and small logistics stores which are still being downsized. Do a search on BRAC to become more informed.
          MY REPLY: since you didn’t get it the first time: it is NATO and the U.S. which is surrounding Russia with military bases. The U.S. has nearly 1000 military bases around the world. How many does Russia have? 1? 2? And who goes halfway around the world to start wars in Iraq, Libya, Syria, etc.? Guess what? It ain’t Russia.

          ME: “Which country sponsored a violent neo-Nazi backed coup against the democratically elected government of Ukraine?
          That would be U.S. And the Kiev Nazis promptly started oppressing the people of eastern Ukraine. But hey, I guess if you lived there you wouldn’t fight back against those trying to KILL you.”
          YOU: Again with the false Nazi meme…a few were, just like in Russia many skin head types have nazi symbols, some even fighting against Kiev. P.S. I think the Russians are oppressing Eastern Ukraine more than any government in Kiev did. And how quickly people forget that what Maiden replaced was a Russian puppet government that was corrupt and really hurting East Ukraine’s interest as well.
          MY REPLY: try Google, you’ll find neo-Nazi paramilitary groups attacking eastern Ukraine. Russia oppressing eastern Ukraine? well they sure aren’t shelling the civilians in the cities! that’s the job of the coup government in Kiev

          ME: You are just another apologist for American neo-con imperialism which, after Iraq, has started yet another civil war. –
          YOU: Not really, but I smell Russian troll all over you…and that is a compliment. If not, you are a total dupe
          MY REPLY: hope the U.S. neo-cons are paying you some good money to spread lies

          • infocyde

            By the number of replies you are the gov troll gay veteran. How’s the weather in Moscow or St. Petersburg today?

          • Gay Veteran

            sorry junior, I’m in Baltimore, and you desperately need to educate yourself on what is going on

          • infocyde

            US spent 5 billion over how long? And what was some of that 5 billion for? Persuading Ukraine to give up it’s nuclear weapons…enabling Moscow to conduct this little Op. Russians soldiers posted pictures of themselves in Ukraine online as well as Speznaz were captured in Ukraine. The weapons used by the rebels are often Russia’s latest unavailable to Ukrainians. It is you who need to become educated, or quit lying. You have posted 10872 messages on disqus. Says troll to me…

          • Gay Veteran

            troll? you’re the one spewing the neo-con LIES.
            got any photos of Russian tanks entering Ukraine? hmmmmmmm

            assistant secretary of State Nuland (NEO-CON) on tape saying how we were going to install Yats as prime minister.
            sorry junior, but the U.S. Empire failed in Ukraine, and is failing in Syria.
            the only thing our little coup did was destroy the economy of Ukraine and murder 1000s in eastern Ukraine

          • awb22

            My condolences to baltimore, and that’s saying something.

  • Anon

    “hey Einstein, they are ALL dead. So there is NO difference between directly killing them and indirectly killing them with the civil war we unleashed”

    Well, we can take this kind of thinking and apply to all kinds of chains of causation. Therefore, a negligent act of damaging someone’s property by simply being careless and downright intentional act of arson would be the absolutely the same as in both cases, the house BURNED DOWN. The world does not work that stupifyingly simple ways.

    • Gay Veteran

      guess what Einstein, in both cases you are held responsible.
      and it is not an “negligent act” to wage a war of aggression on a country which then descends into civil war

  • Gay Veteran

    the psychopaths who pushed for the war of aggression didn’t all have the same goal.
    ever hear of the Empire of Chaos?