Why Does The Department Of Homeland Security Need 450 MILLION Hollow Point Bullets?

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Somebody out there has decided that the Department of Homeland Security needs a whole lot of ammunition.  Recently it was announced that ATK was awarded a contract to provide up to 450 MILLION hollow point bullets to the Department of Homeland Security over the next five years.  Is it just me, or does that sound incredibly excessive?  What in the world is the DHS going to do with 450 million rounds?  What possible event would ever require that much ammunition?  If the United States was ever invaded, it would be the job of the U.S. military to defend the country, so that can’t be it.  So what are all of those bullets for?  Who does the Department of Homeland Security plan to be shooting at?  According to the U.S. Census, there are only about 311 million people living in the entire country.  So why does the Department of Homeland Security need 450 million rounds of ammunition?  Either this is an incredible waste or there is something that the Department of Homeland Security is not telling us.


I could understand if the U.S. military was ordering ammunition in this quantity.  When you fight wars you can go through ammunition very rapidly.

But the Department of Homeland Security is only supposed to be shooting at people very rarely.

It simply does not make sense that they would need so much ammunition.

The following is an excerpt from the official press release about this deal between ATK and the Department of Homeland Security….

ATK announced that it is being awarded an Indefinite Delivery/Indefinite Quantity (IDIQ) agreement from the Department of Homeland Security, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (DHS, ICE) for .40 caliber ammunition. This contract features a base of 12 months, includes four option years, and will have a maximum volume of 450 million rounds.

ATK was the incumbent and won the contract with its HST bullet, which has proven itself in the field. The special hollow point effectively passes through a variety of barriers and holds its jacket in the toughest conditions. HST is engineered for 100-percent weight retention, limits collateral damage, and avoids over-penetration.

“We are proud to extend our track record as the prime supplier of .40 caliber duty ammunition for DHS, ICE,” said Ron Johnson, President of ATK’s Security and Sporting group.

But this is not the only kind of ammo that the DHS is placing an order for.

Business Insider is also reporting that the Department of Homeland Security is seeking to buy 175 million rifle ammunition rounds….

We’ve also learned that the Department has an open bid for a stockpile of rifle ammo. Listed on the federal business opportunities network, they’re looking for up to 175 million rounds of .233 caliber ammo to be exact. The 223 is almost exactly the same round used by NATO forces, the 5.56 x 45mm.

This all comes at a time when gun sales are absolutely going through the roof in the United States.

Gun manufacturer Sturm, Ruger & Co. recently announced that it would be suspending new orders until May because it received orders for more than one million guns during the months of January and February.

The following announcement about this suspension of sales comes from their official website….

  • The Company’s Retailer Programs that were offered from January 1, 2012 through February 29, 2012 were very successful and generated significant orders from retailers to independent wholesale distributors for Ruger firearms.
  • Year-to-date, the independent wholesale distributors placed orders with the Company for more than one million Ruger firearms.
  • Despite the Company’s continuing successful efforts to increase production rates, the incoming order rate exceeds our capacity to rapidly fulfill these orders. Consequently, the Company has temporarily suspended the acceptance of new orders.
  • The Company expects to resume the normal acceptance of orders by the end of May 2012.

Since Barack Obama first took office, gun sales in America have risen to extraordinary levels.

Overall, more than 10 million guns were sold in the United States during 2011.

And gun sales have continued to rise at a brisk pace in 2012.  The following was recently posted on Yahoo News….

The NSSF said that 920,840 instant criminal background checks were made in January alone, a gain of 17.3% over the same month in 2011. This now makes it the 20th consecutive month of increases. While using the number of background checks is a good measurement of sales, it doesn’t paint the whole picture as some checks are used for the purchases of multiple firearms. Also, some private transfers and sales from gun shows are exempt, making the actual number of guns sold higher.

According to Gallup, 41 percent of all Americans said that they owned a gun in 2010.  But when that question was asked again in 2011, that number had risen to 47 percent.

Clearly, a lot of Americans are feeling the need to arm themselves.

Unfortunately, they may find themselves short on ammunition for those guns considering how much ammo the government is buying up.

So what is causing everyone to buy so many guns?

Well, without a doubt we are likely to see a rise in crime as the U.S. economy continues to crumble.  People want to be able to protect themselves and their families when everything falls apart.  In fact, we are already starting to see some really violent home invasions in many parts of the nation.  Many in the prepper movement are deeply concerned about the direction this country is headed and they want to be prepared for whatever happens.

Of course the rising gang problem in America is a major concern too.  According to the FBI there are now 1.4 million gang members living in the United States, and that number has increased by 40 percent since 2009.  Many urban communities have essentially been taken over by these gangs, and many of these gangs are definitely not shy about using violence.  Average Americans that live in these communities want to be able to have a fighting chance against these gangs.

But that doesn’t explain why the DHS needs so much ammunition.  Yes, our world is becoming increasingly unstable, but under what conditions does the DHS ever anticipate firing off 450 million rounds?

Something does not add up.  If anyone has a possible explanation for why the DHS would need 450 million rounds of ammunition, please post a comment and share your thoughts with us below….

  • 1stVArifleman

    “Over grown military establishments are under any form of government inauspicious to and hostile to liberty.”
    George Washington

    “Government is not reason; it is not eloquence; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master.”
    George Washington

    “A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.”
    George Washington

    “Friends and Fellow-Citizens:…. a solicitude for your welfare which can not end with my life, and the apprehension of danger natural to that solicitude, urge me on an occasion like the present to offer to your solemn contemplation and to recommend to your frequent review some sentiments which are the result of much reflection, of no inconsiderable observation, and which appear to me all important to permanency of your felicity as a people…. Interwoven as is the love of liberty with every ligament of your hearts,…. The unity of government…is a main pillar in the edifice of your real independence…of your tranquility at home, your peace abroad; of your safety; of your prosperity; of that very liberty which you so highly prize…. avoid the necessity of those overgrown military establishments which, under any form of government, are inauspicious to liberty, and which are to be regarded as particularly hostile to republican liberty…. Let me now take a more comprehensive view, and warn you in the most solemn manner against the baneful effects of the spirit of [political] party generally. This spirit, unfortunately, is inseparable from our nature, having its root in the strongest passions of the human mind. It exists under different shapes in all governments, more or less stifled, controlled, or repressed; but in those of the popular form it is seen in its greatest rankness and is truly their worst enemy….It serves always to distract the public councils and enfeeble the public administration. It agitates the community with ill-founded jealousies and false alarms; kindles the animosity of one part against another; foments occasionally riot and insurrection. It opens the door to foreign influence and corruption, which finds a facilitated access to the government itself through the channels of party passion. Thus the policy and the will of one country are subjected to the policy and will of another…. As a very important source of strength and security, cherish public credit. One method of preserving it is to use it as sparingly as possible, avoiding occasions of expense by cultivating peace, but remembering also that timely disbursements to prepare for danger frequently prevent much greater disbursements to repel it; avoiding likewise the accumulation of debt, not only by shunning occasions of expense, but by vigorous exertions in time of peace to discharge the debts which unavoidable wars have occasioned, not ungenerously throwing upon posterity the burthen which we ourselves ought to bear…. It is our true policy to steer clear of permanent alliances with any portion of the foreign world….”
    1796 Farwell Address [Advice Long Forgotten]—George Washington


  • mondobeyondo

    It’s for the DHS to fight all of these “domestic terrorists”.
    Am I right? Yes, of course I am. (gotta find a toilet bowl, I’m about to vomit!)

    Why does the Department of Homeland Security need 450 million hollow point bullets? What war are they fighting? The obvious answer is the “war on terrorism”. Yep. Excuse me, gotta run to the toilet again. I’m really gonna puke this time.

    Just a question: How often have you heard or read about al-Qaeda in the mainstream media lately? The last I heard, they were in Yemen trying to stir up some trouble. Other than that, they have been extremely quiet lately.

    • Craig

      YOU mean the AL-CIA-ADA ?

  • Imaplaneiac

    Hmm, OWEbama recently signed his National Defense Resource Preparedness Exeuctive Order. No we learn about this massive order of ammo! Is there a connection? Will Obummer soon have an excuse to declare Marshall Law?

    • Relax people. I believe it was a couple of years ago that Americans bought enough ammo for the Chinese and Indian military’s combined. I am sure in the two years since, there has been no let up. And really, this shouldn’t be a concern of yours if you have been stocking up on ammo, for say… the past 10 years. Unless of course, YOU HAVE BEEN SLEEPING.

      But then again, how many people in the 20th century went to the gulags and/or were executed without so much as a whimper? Just bleated all the way to their graves.

      It really is a shame. Assuming TP’sTB come pounding on doors en-mass, most AmeriKans will just crap their pants.

      There is another possibility. The DHS is responsible with critical infrastructure protection… including all government facilities – including those underground bunkers and government officials. I am sure in any event, they are aware and prepared. Are you?


    If I was to guess, the reason the DHS and TSA are buying this maount of ammunition could be for two reasons.
    1. Deplete the supply of the best quality ammo or so involve the manufacturer in supply this most likely overpriced government contract so that they cannot produce civilian rounds

    2. They expect to be very busy as a paramilitary force. And that, my friends, bodes badly for the civilian population.
    There is good news though. There are about 150,000,000 gun owners in the US. Collectively we own about 300,000,000 fire arms. If each of us owns even a meager supply of 1,000 rounds for each gun we are talking about 300 billion rounds of ammo in private hands.
    That’s alot of ammo.

    • Dennis the Menace

      I like your thinking!

  • bette

    Why is DHS buying up the ammo? To keep it out of the hands of those millions of US gun owners!

    • guido

      I’m sorry, but have you ever been to a gun show? I have no idea how many pallets they bring to gun shows, but they sell mountains of ammo every weekend across this nation. If the feds are trying to deplete the sources of ammo in this country, they’re doing an awful job of it. The prices, while double what they were a decade ago, are still relatively low.

  • Georgiaboy61

    If the allegation above is in fact true – i.e., that DHS has ordered some 450 million rounds of ammunition – this portends very badly for this nation because it means that DHS is preparing for a fight. Who with? As the author notes, the military is charged with the defense of the nation, so why does DHS need all that ammunition? There is no constitutionally-defensible, logical reason for this purchase. The author is right to ask if the Obama regime and DHS know something we do not. During his campaign and since then, Obama has famously spoken of a civilian force “as well-armed as the military.” Maybe he has the DHS in mind as his own private army of “brownshirts” and thugs.

  • Ellen

    You forgot to add in Mexican and Canadian populations, 101 mil and
    33 mil respectively.
    I believe they signed a treaty last week or so allowing your people
    to come in an shoot us.

    • Dennis the Menace

      Who shooting who????

  • The Jed

    Malthusian influences. Look it up because you were intentionally bred to be stupid, and you’re too stupid to realize it.

    • Dennis the Menace

      the jebmister,
      oh you poor little thing. must be damp in Mommy’s basement.

    • vancouver mark

      That’s pretty repugnant, Jed.

  • They need to know they have two shots at taking out each of us I guess. Kind of makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside huh?

  • The government is also preparing for widespread insurrection when the inevitable happens – a total financial collapse, followed by food shortages and rioting. Many of those citizens who are buying guns can also see the handwriting on the wall. It isn’t just the fear of Obama getting re-elected and the tyranny that would follow – it’s the necessity to protect their property from both private and government interests intent on taking it. The preppers have it right.

    “A wise man sees evil and hides himself, but the fools pass on and are punished.”
    Proverbs 22:3

  • Steven

    A real question that needs to be answered is why hollow point?
    Hollow point are specifically designed for public safety and self defense in that they tend to remain in the target, as opposed to full metal jacket, which is now more of a practice round with real dangers of passing through a target.

    In other words, the ammo appears not to be for practice.
    Why so hollow point?

    • Benjik

      My thoughts EXACTLY.

    • Fabian

      That’s simple. Theory says you should always practice with the ammo you’re going to use in combat. You weapon may not cycle well with a different ammo, aiming and recoil may be different. Most of us, for budgetary reasons train with as cheap as possible ammo but budgets are not a concern of the gov.

  • William

    The Cheka has formed in America. There is no difference between Napolitano and Uritsky or Dzerzhinsky.

  • chris

    Michael, I wish I could answer your question. That is an immense amount of ammo for DHS to be ordering…

  • Kevin

    Expanding ammo such as hollow points are forbidden in warfare for the last hundred years. There goes the excuse for a foreign use. If DHS has 100,000 armed agents (and that is a lot) and they practice with and qualify using 200 rounds annually that accounts for 20 million rounds per year or 100 million over 5 years. Doing the math they are left with 350 million rounds of ammo for some domestic emergency.

    There are 310 million people in the US.

    One can do nothing about the purchase but I do see an investment opportunity. Heck, Smith & Wesson holding company stock almost tripled since November.

  • Rowell

    Michael, I think you’re misinterpreting the information there. What the contract states is “…UP TO 450 million rounds”. They are not ordering 450 million rounds right off the bat. With an IDIQ contract, there’s no set amount or duration, such as “I need 1 million rounds every month for the next 5 years”. It’s contract talk saying “Hey there, we want to purchase ammunition from you. We don’t know how much we need, or for how long we’ll need it. Let’s say that we’re going to be buying all our ammunution from you up to a limit of 450 million rounds.”

    That might take 5 years to get there, 10 years, 20 years, etc. It’s kind of like home heating oil contracts. They’ll set a term and a cap, such as “we’ll sell you home heating oil for $4.00 a gallon, up to a limit of 800 gallons, until March 01, 2013.” So, whichever is reached first, either March 1st, or 800 gallons, marks the end of the contract.

    I hope this helps clear things up.

    • guido

      Precisely, the data is rather thin and most people don’t know much about government contracting. We have practically no data here and without the actual terms of the contract, people have no reason to go crazy with conspiracy theories and wild claims.

    • Trent

      From what I read on another site, it’s 90 mil in the next year, 90 the following year, and 50 for the next 4 years. Compare that to the 30 mil for the last 5 years. Something’s up

  • Ozmo

    Unless I’m mistaken there should be about 2k rounds for each employee that carries a gun for each gun carried.

    So the question becomes why do we need so many employees for homeland security?

    Just my 2 cents.

  • karen

    I can tell you why… As you said in your other web site about insane people in the US. two things that can prove the point a vedio called 5 reasons american riots will be the worst in the world, and a article from Henery Kissinger… If you can’t hear the war drums beating you must be deaf, the goverment will fight off the hordes of starving and the insane, selfish and drugged-out people. Another good web shtfplan.com

  • Alan

    Stealth gun control…if the government buys up all the ammo supplies dwindle, prices surge. There you go.

    • Chris S

      100% correct. They can’t go door to door and take all the guns, so just buy up all available ammo and the people can’t find it/can’t afford it. 9mm ammo will be next, then .45…

  • Donald Wilson

    Prepare for the New World Order.

  • JC Vaughan

    Invasion of the Giant Spiders, perhaps? Maybe taking the X-Men movies a bit too literally? Perhaps someone remembers – and confuses with reality – the old “Skywald Horror-Mood” comic magazine stories from the 1970’s, where the Shoggoths came up from underground and killed off most of the human race? Or could it be the old “alien invasion” scenerio? What the hey, maybe they’ve gotten ticked off and decided to REALLY go after all of those damned DC alley rats!

    • mondobeyondo

      Relax. Spider-Man will take care of those giant spiders.


  • Chris

    311 million rounds would give them no room for error.

  • Patrick Henry

    I am sure they need this amount for multiple planned crisis. The crisis will first have to b so dramatic that the majority of people will turn off their guns with out firing a single shot!

    It will be bloody if its is guns or gold and silver. I hope those that come have kissed their children and wives goodbye, because at least one of you is not going home that day.

    DHS’ five year order for 450 million rounds of .40 cal, and 175 million rounds of .223 cal is stagerring considering their are only 22,000 DHS employees in the whole country. That’s 20,000 .40cal rounds per employee and 8000 .223cal rounds per employee.

    Think you may want to continue preparing for STHTF. As a place to start check out http://www.patriotprovisions.com I found TAPCO 5.56 30 round magazines for $12 a piece. Their prices on most food, camos and tactical stuff is really well priced and they ship really quick.

    • 1stVArifleman

      “Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined.”
      Patrick Henry

      “The liberties of a people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them.”
      Patrick Henry

      “When the American spirit was in its youth, the language of America was different: Liberty, sir, was the primary object.”
      Patrick Henry

      “Bad men cannot make good citizens. It is impossible that a nation of infidels or idolaters should be a nation of freemen. It is when a people forget God that tyrants forge their chains. A vitiated state of morals, a corrupted public conscience, is incompatible with freedom. No free government, or the blessings of liberty, can be preserved to any people but by a firm adherence to justice, moderation, temperance, frugality, and virtue; and by a frequent recurrence to fundamental principles”
      Patrick Henry

      “It is natural to man to indulge in the illusions of hope. We are apt to shut our eyes against a painful truth, and listen to the song of that siren, till she transforms us into beasts. Is this the part of wise men, engaged in a great and arduous struggle for liberty? Are we disposed to be of the number of those who, having eyes, see not, and having ears, hear not, the things which so nearly concern their temporal salvation? For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth; to know the worst and provide for it.”
      Patrick Henry

      “Let Mr. Madison tell me when did liberty ever exist when the sword and the purse were given up from the people? Unless a miracle shall interpose, no nation ever did, nor ever can retain its liberty after the loss of the sword and the purse.”
      Patrick Henry

      “Are we at last brought to such a humiliating and debasing
      degradation, that we cannot be trusted with arms for our own
      defence? Where is the difference between having our arms in our
      own possession and under our own direction, and having them under
      the management of Congress? If our defence be the_real_object of
      having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more
      propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands?”
      Patrick Henry

      “I have but one lamp by which my feet are guided, and that is the lamp of experience. I know of no way of judging of the future but by the past…. Shall we acquire the means of effectual resistance by lying supinely on our backs and hugging the delusive phantom of hope, until our enemies shall have bound us hand and foot? Sir, we are not weak if we make a proper use of those means which the God of nature hath placed in our power. The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us…. it is now too late to retire from the contest. There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! Our chains are forged! Their clanking may be heard on the plains of Boston! The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, sir, let it come….Gentlemen may cry, Peace, Peace– but there is no peace. The war is actually begun!….Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!”
      Patrick Henry


  • Don

    When Government makes the rules, interprets the rules, and enforces the rules, then there is tyranny…Newt Gingrich, 2012

  • LGore


  • Dave

    DHS has approximately 50,000-plus armed law enforcement officer, investigators, and guards.
    These officers carry an average ammo load of 36 rounds, so…

    50,000 x 36 = 1,750,000 rounds ‘ on the street’

    Additionally, officers must qualify at least quarterly, so with practice fire and qualifying, they may use two-three times that number of rounds, so…

    1,750,000 x 3 = 5.500,000 rounds for each qualifying period

    5,500,000 x 4 = 22,000,000 rounds for four quarterly qualifications

    At minimum, these officers use between 22 – 25,000,000 rounds of ammo per year.

    The headline for this article is somewhat exagerative when it states that DHS is buying 450,000,000 rounds of .40 caliber ammo. In one of the inserted statements (if you read it), you find out that the coontract is a one-year contract with possible extension for four more years. This means that actually DHS is only purchasing one-quarter of the reported amount -about 100,000,000 rounds.

    While this is more than they use on average, this is not uncommon for the government to overbuy to ensure that they have sufficient supply in case of a future unplanned loss or interruption of the supply.

    Insofar as the rifle ammo goes, these same officers are now training and will be carrying semi-automatic rifles. THis is a counter-action to the recent activities along the southern border by drug cartels who are using rifles to shoot at law enforcement from a greater (safer) distance.

    I’m not defending the amount of ammo purchased, just the rationale. All government agencies overspend because they never know what their budget will be next year.

    • guido

      Excellent point, Sir. I wanted to point out that this is just pistol ammo. For folks who are really concerned about this issue, does it really bother you that they’re buying up pistol ammo? If they were buying up M1 tanks or phased plasma rifles in a 40 watt range, I might be more interested.
      Didn’t they make it legal under Clinton for ALL federal agents to go armed? I don’t know if that’s accurate or if it’s still on the books, but I remember people were upset back then that folks from HUD might be legally permitted to carry guns.

  • Jon smith

    When we go under Marshall law they will be ready. Will we?

  • M.B.

    You did not give the artist credit for the picture of the hand and hourglass. Did you also forget to ask for permission to use their art? Please remember to adhere to copyright laws.

    • Michael

      It is a public domain photograph.


  • Righteous expose American Dream:

    There is one plausable explanation for arming the DHS. Our great leader President Obama’s “Private Army”

    The portion of the flawed Obama Health Care Bill that references the creation of a new National Security Force, the “regular corps and ready reserve corps”, what some have called “Obama’s Private Army”, has nothing whatsoever to do with health care. Establishment of that Private Army was inserted in the 2074 page flawed Obama Health Care Bill that Pelosi said the Congress would have to read after it was passed, in order to see what was in it!!!

    This “Private Army” would be the fulfillment of Senator Obama’s campaign promise made on July 2, 2008, when then Senator Obama said at that time: “We cannot continue to rely only on our military. … We’ve got to have a civilian Security Force just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded. We cannot continue to rely only on our military in order to achieve the National Security objectives we’ve set.”

    Be aware and be prepared. http://www.magnifiedview.com/2010/09/17/yodas-little-known-tactics-to-avoid-being-a-target/

    Right on intel Hub – WRITE ON!

    Cordially, Yoda@magnifiedview.com

    P.S. “May you live in interesting times.” Ancient Chinese curse.

  • Nam Marine

    It would be the Military’s job to defend us……..if they were here. Most of them are overseas. The only reason the DHS would need that much ammo is to keep it out of the hands of the people. Too late!……..I have all I need guys, Thanks anyway!

    • R.P.

      The American military and all it’s divisions were formed to protect the American people. NONE were formed to protect the American people from their own Government. The military is comprised from the people at large. A viable question then is how many within the military would act against their fellow American in defense of a tyrannical Government?

    • Nam Marine II

      Semper Fi bro I got your flank

  • A.S.

    It will be almost impossible to shoot everyone of us…my guess is to artificially drive up price for gun owners.

    Since more demand exists price goes up. Since government contract will be a priority, supply in stores goes down and price goes up. More demand, and less supply, price will be very, very high for gun owners. Do this many times, and soon each bullet may cost half the price of one gun. Little bullets for gun owners equals TSA, DHS, etc., has more bullets to shoot at us. It is a win-win-win for them. Win one: they have many bullets. Win two: we have little bullets. Win three: all at the tax-payers expense–did even one of them work an honest day’s work? I welcome anyone to disagree with my reasoning.

  • Tumblebug

    There aren’t enough DHS employess to shoot 450 million rounds. I think everyone may be thinking backwards. It is going to the underground bunkers. I don’t think so much for offense, but defense. After everything gets blown to hell there won’t be any weapons manufacturers.

  • Mike

    The contract that article refers to is somewhat misleading. This is a typical government contract on purchase of goods. If you can find a copy of the contract through an open records request, you’ll find that they aren’t looking at purchasing 450 million rounds. The number can be anywhere from 1 to 450 million. Also, it’s not a guaranteed contract as far as the term lengths. The contract is valid for 1 year with the option of renewal in 1 year increments. If the contractor doesn’t perform well in the first year, the govt can rebid the job to a different vendor. Additionally, if the contractor carries out their contractual obligations with no problems, the contract can be extended for an additional year…. Up to 5 years consecutively.

    It’s still a large contract nonetheless but nothing really out of the ordinary in the govt contract world.

  • James

    You guys missed the 200 million rounds that they ordered from Winchester in 2009.

    I can’t link to the original press release because the filters at work block it, but here’s the FreeRepublic link that goes to it.


    Which puts us up to potentially 600M .40 cal HPs and nearly 200M rifle rounds, and I’m sure other contracts have been signed recently which add to the numbers.

    On a side note, I did a quick calculation and figured in WW2 there were 12M Axis deaths and the Allies needed 25k rounds/death. Meaning the Allies expended 300B rounds of ammo during WW2.

  • honestann

    The answer is obvious. They intend to kill a large percentage of the population of the USSA. Expect the population of the USSA to be less than 100-million five years from now. And no, you won’t be safe just because you praise totalitarian dictatorship at every opportunity. To be sure, advocates of honesty, liberty, justice and individualism will be eliminated first, but everyone else that isn’t enriching the predators-that-be and predator-class will also be exterminated.

  • Larry

    Why does DHS need 450 million rounds of ammo? Well, when paper money finally collapses because it’s backed by nothing; when inflation hits double digits; when it costs $6 for a gallon of gas; and when more millions cannot find jobs, DHS is preparing for the American Spring. And when that happens, it will be the second shot heard round the world! Get prepared people.

  • darkstarsky

    WOW…there are a lot of paranoid people on this site…too funny.

    • Yeah, yeah, don´t worry your little head, you can get back to sleep. Everything is in order. Good night!

  • The Truth Guy

    There are 311 Million Americans…. So much for the one shot one kill theory. I guess they know a few great Americans will put up a fight to save the constitution.. in spite of the many sociopaths running this country into the ground.

    No Fear though, as only the Preppers and the Meek shall inherit the earth anyway. Stay Safe my Friends!!

  • Alex

    Just to break it down for you. Let’s say that only half of the DHS’ employees carry guns, that would be 108,000. Additionally, let’s say that over the next 5 years, the DHS acquires the maximum amount of ammunition available through this contract 450M. (Remember, the contract is written that the MAXIMUM amount that the DHS can buy is 450M…they HAVE NOT paid for 450M rounds)

    450,000,000/108,000=4167 rounds each over 5 years
    4167/5=833 rounds per year
    833/12=69 rounds per month

    Wow, so you’re upset about a WHOPPING 67 rounds per month?! I burn through more than that on my own in about 30 minutes of training.

  • Public Citizen

    450 million HOLLOW POINTS?
    This isn’t the sort of ammunition used for practice. This is ammunition used to ~kill people~.
    The contract terms average out to 90 million rounds per year. What on earth are they planning to do with all that firepower?

  • Gay Veteran

    the Republic is dead:

    “…The NDAA [National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA), also known as the Homeland Battlefield Bill] implodes our most cherished constitutional protections. It permits the military to function on U.S. soil as a civilian law enforcement agency. It authorizes the executive branch to order the military to selectively suspend due process and habeas corpus for citizens. The law can be used to detain people deemed threats to national security, including dissidents whose rights were once protected under the First Amendment, and hold them until what is termed “the end of the hostilities.” Even the name itself—the Homeland Battlefield Bill—suggests the totalitarian concept that endless war has to be waged within “the homeland” against internal enemies as well as foreign enemies….”


  • Geoff

    It’s simple enough; MARTIAL LAW. Although it can be argued that we are in it already, if the economy goes down the tubes, which they are planning on and actively encouraging through Communism/socialism/anti-Colonialism, then they will need that ammo. Obama’s no dumby, though I think he’s got ADHD, however he’s following the script like a good boy.

  • Chris S

    The DHS bought all the ammo for one reason. Make it harder and more expensive for the citizens to get it! The price of of 5.56 ammo went from $150 for 450 rounds to $400 for $400 rounds. Next they will buy up 500 million units of 9mm ammo. You see, they may not be able to go after your guns. (yet) but they can keep making your ammo “out of reach”. Stock up now. An investment in ammo, is better than your money earning 1% in the bank or being hidden under your bed!

  • This one is easy. They need 450 million rounds for two reasons. One – many within the government are not well trailed and will sometimes miss their assigned target. And two: There are many of us that *****************.

    • Dennis the Menace

      Leave us not forget……..There will be plenty of guns and amo for all of us when we walk the grounds afterwards!

  • Gary2

    Michael–the bullets are for shooting Gog and Magog. They will send them back to the lake of fire.

    I wonder how many bullets it will take to finish off old gog and magog?

  • OK, I did not take the time to read all the posts here, so, if someone already said this, don’t bother telling me. Our Nation is at a crossroads and the shit is, indeed, about to hit the fan, BUT, as much as I KNOE evry Politician is corrupt and overdue for a necktie party, I don’t see any evil in these numbers. 450 million over 4 years for their entire force? Hell, I go through over 2,ooo rds./year just in the normal practicing with my firearms. The number 450 mil. could be a little high depending on the numbers of critters they have armed, but, those critters do quite a bit of shooting to stay ahead of “improperly trained” charges when they plug a civvie. For every round that is expended by LEO’s, 99.9% are expended at the shooting range, Thank God !

  • How many agent work for Homeland security? Now divide that by 450 million.It looks and sound like Homeland security plans on shooting lots of people who disobey or try to escape the FEMA camps.Now we know why FEMA has all those plastic coffin that are stored in GA. 450 million rounds of ammo for 1 federal Dept. Millions of dollars in freeze dried food FEMA order from Mt House.(DUMB)under ground bases.NDAA, patriot act. PDO’s . Congress sitting on there hand doing nothing.Recall of military surplus ammo. I would say something getting ready to happen.

  • Rose

    Anyone willing to contact the DHS Office of the Inspector General (DHSOIG) hotline? See http://www.oig.dhs.gov/
    Thier MISSION

    The OIG serves as an independent and objective inspection, audit, and investigative body to promote effectiveness, efficiency, and economy in the Department of Homeland Security’s programs and operations, and to prevent and detect fraud, abuse, mismanagement, and waste in such programs and operations.

    I am not up for being high profile for personal reasons but maybe someone on this website would like to follow this lead?

  • William

    Bullets are the projectiles that exit the barrel of a firearm. It is incorrect to call a round of ammunition, or a cartridge a “bullet”. 450 million hollow point bullets are inert and harmless. Only when loaded into a brass shell, with a primer and smokeless gunpowder does a bullet become dangerous.

  • Charles James

    Note the caliber .40 S&W only. That leaves me to believe that the ammo is NOT to keep the American people from getting their hands on it but wanting to use it themselves because otherwise they also would have ordered 9mm, 45acp and so on.

  • killer

    OK, everybody bend over and grab yer ankles. Sorry, no KY Jelly. No money in the budget for that, just bullets.

  • alex

    450 million homeland sec pistol rounds 40 cal-are to be used against the 130 million gun owners when they dont turn over their guns to the govt—-un troops with 40cal zip guns will most likely be used.–hillary clinton just signed on to un troops used to confiscate us patriots guns—shame—impeach obama for the russian treason and hillary for treason against americans/—

  • Low Orbit

    The thought comes to mind that a nice stockpile of ammo already on hand would be appreciated if the government plan was to bring foreign military force (UN Peace keepers) to help us out of our troubles. We can pay for the ammo to keep their weapons loaded out of the pockets of the public they are going to be shooting at and the Washington Czars and Politbuerocrats would not need to be overly worried that they will get the boot, as the boot will already be firmly planted on our necks.

    • Kevin

      40 caliber is not their ammo. Beware the 9mm purchase and tremble if it’s 7.62-39 mm

  • Dan

    DHS is buying all those rounds because the Mexican Cartels have placed an order with ATF Eric Holder. What good are all the weapons they let “walk” over the border without the supply of ammo needed for them?

  • Dan

    Have you gun owners and licensed carriers considered this administration’s plans after reelection? They are now using a rare instance of a Right To Carry guy in Fl. that may or may not have ********* up to incite a new round of hate and misinformation. They know they cannot ever get a bill through congress to disarm us–and the Supreme Court is not stacked right for them now. They are looking for a case to be made to declare some kind of national emergency to be based on the criminal gun violence in the inner cities. Somehow that and the border violence is related to legal gun sales and carry permits in the fly over states – in their minds. Could homeland security be planning for a shootout with the ones they seem to fear the most?– that would be us– I think ? Will Federal Marshals fire on you if you refuse to open you gun safe to them? One by one we can’t stop them. But what we have to do for now is stop the reelection of this . One more Supreme Court appointment and the Second amendment could be toast. Freedoms related to religion, border security, defensive weapons, national defense, voter fraud, education, energy utilization and exploration are at stake. Extreme environmental enactment already started will kill the coal industry and Texas greatest boom in oil since the ’30s (fracking).

  • NutJob

    Oh I have plenty of ammo. 9mm .308 and 12 gauge.

  • MountainHome

    That’s 1,232,876 for 365 days. Now, that is the scary part of this story.

  • HH

    Hollow points are illegal for use in war,but can be used on civilian populations by police etc.

    Although .40 cal is historically a pistol round, there are rifles common to law enforecement such as Kel-Tec Sub-2000 out there that use them for their low recoil.

  • ray

    That’s ok, I have 6000 of the same rounds, and about 22,000 of others, 198 of the best weapons one can buy, and 30 that can take someone out at 1/2 a mile regardless of their Armour, any homeless person who can pass a background check will go in with you and buy the gun for you, theyll do it for 25 bucks

  • MisterC

    This is why you should use commie ammo, 7.62x54r, 5.45×39, 7.62×25. The powers that be won’t be buying it up. It is VERY plentiful and affordable. Unfortunately the prices for this stuff is creeping up because more folks are using it. So, pull out the credit card and buy a couple crates ASAP. :-)

  • Silvermoney

    Things are going to get so bad that in the future we may look back to the present and see that flash mobs were kiddie play. No petrol and/or high prices, think mad max. The earth is a spinning ball of dirt, flying through the universe, anything can happen.

    • Dennis the Menace

      There you go being practical again!

  • WVHunter

    People,it’s time to wake up. Take time to understand the threat we face and then forward the link to this article to your friends and family. Also, if you haven’t already done so, start asking hard questions of your Federal and State Representatives about what is going on. In case you haven’t heard, while they’re arming Homeland Security to the teeth within our borders,our military is waging wars overseas without adequate ammunition or supplies. Most importantly, if you’re a God fearing Patriot, get on your hands and knees, fast from food if you can (remember, there won’t be much food available if you’re in prison), and storm Heaven with prayers for help because “In God We Trust!”

    As it has been said better than me, “all it takes for evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing.”

  • Scary! I have heard Obama wants to be a dictator and turn the US into a muslim country. Could this be true? And would that be why he wants Homeland Security so heavily armed? He frightens me. And also frightening is the fact that some of my intelligent friends believe in him and will vote for him again. God help us. Oh, am I allowed to say that on a public website? I say it anyway as this country needs God as never before.

    • Bob

      It is hard to believe it has taken so many folks so long to start wondering what is going on, much less wake up. From day one this president, and I use the term lightly, has had his plans on, as he told us, Change. We as Americans could not conseive what he had in mind. from constutional governing to commie rule with him the leader and g. soreass pulling the strings. TSA is his new army, now they are stopping folks in the street checking their cars and soon they will all be armed. You know not every bullet hits it target SO! I just hope if you are waking up now it is not to late, send anything you get your hands on to your consertive friends and hope you can wake more up before election time, otherwise if the freek wins again and you are not dead you will be in internment camps awaiting death. Remember the hollicost, the Jews didn’t think it was possible and guess who put Hitler on this path, you guessed it the muslims of Iran. I am old and seen a lot but you want have seen anything yet if he wins again….

      • DownWithLibs

        I notice that the Great Unifier is trying to start a race war!!! Nice.

    • E. Phorgia

      Hey, MJ Haley! I heard that because you wrote that, Barack Obama is personally going to hunt you down and kill you. Glenn Beck came to me in a vision and told me that.
      So 47% of all Americans have guns, a whole lot of them are way too young to get guns themselves, so I guess that means that most American adults have guns. Given that half of Americans are below average intelligence, that means there are tens of millions of idiots running around the good old US of A with guns. You’d better be praying to your magic superhero in the sky, because America is going to see an apocalypse, but it will be you all shooting each other, not some Muslim invasion.

      • Krush

        E. Phorgia, denial ain’t just my favorite river in Egypt. Your precious Uncle BO’s dictatorship are well under way. Every read about Julius Caesar? Ever watch the Star Wars movies? Obama and his cronies are hard at work trying to take away your Constitutional rights, and you’re going to gladly give them away?! Wake up, pull your head from your rectum, and take a good long look at what is coming next.

      • rob

        you are correct about the intelligence factor. obama was elected!!

      • johnny

        Washington said that the greatest debasement and insult was to not be trusted with our own arms,but for the elites to be only armed.Are you crazy that you think the honest people of America are not to be trusted with their guns?Who is to be?Govts.have slaughtered tens of millions of people in the last century.It’s Govts.who can’t be trusted,hence the second amendment.This is real power to the people.

    • ann

      Remember Obama and his adminstration claim’s the American people are the enemy. Any who beleive in the constitution,cherish life,wish for very little intrusive government,fly their American flag,believe in God, are bible beleiving American’s,conservative,own gun’s and even have more than a week’s worth of food is considered Obama’s enemy.In other word’s those American values and principles that have upheld our country are now anthema to those in power.Could it be Obama is going to steal the election;American’s will not allow it and he will attempt to squelsh the general population?That’s what dictator’s do..especially those who are Russian revolutionlist’s..every communist dictator has killed hundred’s of million’s of their own ppl.

    • Jimmy

      You are retarded Obama is a satan worshipping ****************. At least Muslims believe in god you idiot.

  • Ray Grant

    The End of the World (as we know it)

    1. Reverse engineering is where you take a device, possibly made in another country, that does something that you would like to duplicate. So you take it apart and study the different components and theorize how and why it works. You keep going until you can duplicate the device and duplicate what it does. The rest of the world has been doing this for many years because it greatly shortens the time and investment it took for our country to invent and devise many wonders of technology. I’m sure that we have done the same, especially when it comes to security issues. The following essay was brought about by reverse social engineering. Archeologists do this when they explore the artifacts of long-dead societies and puzzle out what life must have been like back then for those people. In this case it is not a matter of wanting to duplicate something, but to understand the reasons and motives of what governments are doing in our world, most especially why our government is acting like it is. Many various events and activities are taking place that does not make sense in the normal scheme of things. Many pieces of a complicated puzzle are examined to come up with a composite picture that does make sense. Some of the puzzle pieces have already been addressed in the essays; Martial Law and Secret Societies. Since then I have learned a lot more that substantiates that information. I encourage you to read again these essays on this web-site: http://www.kkglorychurch.com .

    2. Problems from that extra planet!

    A. Who discovered it? I don’t know the specifics on this but I do know that astronomers photograph specific regions of the sky and feed it into a computer that compares it to the same region from earlier photographs. Before computers, they did this manually. The points of light that remain the same are ignored and the ones that have moved are studied in more detail. In this manner planetary bodies are discovered and cataloged. Objects that are further away from the sun are more easily discovered with an infrared telescope. The first orbiting infrared telescope (IRAS) was put in orbit in 1983, probably to more accurately confirm what ground-based telescopes had discovered. The existence of an unknown planet was confirmed in an interview of key IRAS scientists by Thomas O’Toole of the Washington Post Dec. 30, 1983. July 29, 2005 NASA claimed that they discovered a tenth planet in our solar system and called it “XENA”. In fact, it is the planet “NIBIRU” that they had known about for at least 22 years and probably since the Kennedy administration, 46 years ago. It is possibly referred to in the Bible as “Wormwood”! NASA didn’t give out any information as to the orbit of this tenth planet or any other information. Actually it passes through the solar system about every 3600 years. This time it is coming up from our world’s southern hemisphere and won’t be observed in the US until possibly the worst of the damage is done.

    B. When will it get close to us? That is evidently still a “national security” secret! From what can be gleaned from the internet and other sources, December of 2012 is a favorite date. However, some of the worst effects will be evident long before its nearest approach to our planet.
    Our weather is controlled by the sun’s activity. The symptoms evident of unusual weather activity is in the news almost daily. Bitter winters in Great Britain, and unusual numbers of tornados & hurricanes, tsunamis, earthquakes & volcanic activity elsewhere. All of these have been on the increase. The deceitful powers that be claim that this is all from man-made pollution and is causing global warming, as if tsunamis, earthquakes, and volcanic activity, events from under the earth, have anything to do with the average surface temperature.

    C. How will it affect the sun? Nibiru/Xena is coming up from the southern solar hemisphere and won’t be visible to us in the earth’s northern hemisphere for another year or two. Remember, it’s still a big secret and the government can’t allow mere mortals to have that information. The gravitational effects will most likely cause sunspots on the side of the sun facing Nibiru. That’s why we don’t see any significant sunspot activity from the earth yet. When it enters the side of the solar system that we are occupying, the effects on the weather and seismic events will be dramatic. Astronomers have been recording dramatic changes to some of the other planets in our solar system for the last several years.

    D. How will it effect the earth? The Atlantic ocean gulf stream has slowed down by at least 30%. Scientists say that this is a result of too much fresh water being added to the ocean from the melting ice from the polar ice caps and Greenland. I understand that the salinity (salt content) of the ocean is what drives the gulf stream somehow and as the salinity decreases, the rate of flow decreases. Those same scientists believe that at some point in the fairly near future, the gulf stream will stop (During 2011 it had all but completely stopped). That will be a disaster of epic proportions. The gulf stream is what keeps the east coast of the US and Great Britain fairly temperate. Moscow has bitter winters every year, while historically Great Britain rarely gets much snow, even though they are close to the same line of latitude (distance from the north pole). In the last few years Great Britain has been having harsher winters. Would you think that this could be due to the Atlantic gulf stream getting colder as it moves slower past the north polar region. In July of 2008 Al Gore said that there’s a 75% chance that the north pole will be completely melted within five years. I would guess a 95% chance because I know that global warming is a fact, and comes from the changes caused by the approach of Nibiru, not greenhouse gasses caused by mankind.

    E. What is the end result to mankind: Best case & worst case? Without the Atlantic gulf stream, the Atlantic coast of the U. S. and Great Britain will have weather similar to that in Moscow. Bear in mind that all of the effects brought on by Nibiru, as it reaches its nearest approach to the sun, will continue for the same period of time as it is leaving our solar system. How many years have we been experiencing the effects of global warming? When Nibiru is on the same side of the sun as the earth, the worst effects will occur. The sunspot activity on our side of the sun will increase which will cause a worsening of the weather and satellite communications will be severely degraded. The best case scenario is that the weather and seismic activity will continue to worsen until Nibiru starts to recede from the solar system. The increased volcanic and earthquake activity, along with the resulting tsunamis (caused by undersea earthquakes), will displace millions of people. If and when the Atlantic gulf stream stops completely, it could take centuries for the polar ice packs (and Greenland) to regain the deposits of fresh water in the form of ice and snow that they had before. This will increase the salinity of the oceans and hopefully restart the Atlantic gulf stream and other ocean currents that have been affected. Also during this time, tidal effects could be much greater without the moderating effect of these ocean currents. Much higher and lower tide levels could make it difficult to live “on the water’s edge “ like most shorelines these days. If this “best case scenario” were expected to happen, the government would not have believed in the need to keep all of this a secret from “We The People”. It would have been hard, but possible, to live through all of this as a nation, like we all pulled together in cooperation to weather the storms of World War II. We performed miracles in science, technology, and manufacturing under the threat of world domination by NAZI Germany and Imperial Japan. We have not been given the opportunity to cooperate, excel, and survive as a nation this time.

    The “1984 Big Brother” mentality has become a reality for us today and the people of our nation have been effectively neutralized as a part of our nation’s decision making process. The wolves and snakes behind the scenes are firmly in control of things and the great nation that we once were is rapidly coming to an end. The worst case scenario is the one that the government evidently believes in and has been preparing for. They have all of the relevant astronomical data on the approach of Nibiru which includes the closest approach, times and dates, to the sun, earth, and the other planets. They have loads of scientific brainpower and the best computers and measuring devices to predict all of the effects it will have on the earth. They have the orbiting telescopes and other satellite instruments with which to measure and compute what is going to happen to us all. The best way that “We The People” have of predicting the coming events is to observe the government preparations. Most of these preparations have been hidden in plain sight.
    So! The government has been preparing for a shift of the world’s polar axis and the resulting unavoidable devastation to the whole world. This is not science fiction because this has happened in the distant past. The earth is roughly egg-shaped and has a slight wobble to it. If you were to point a fixed camera to the north star exactly at the north pole, in a 24 hour period you would see that it described a figure 8 path, instead of being fixed at one point. The magma inside the earth moves about somewhat and can be detected by recording the movement of the magnetic north pole (MNP). The recorded path of the MNP shows that it has been moving from northern Canada in the direction of Siberia. That movement has been accelerating in the last 25 years. If this is linked to the polar axis shift, as a precursor, I could not find any info on this, but it seems likely. There is scientific evidence that before the last shift, there was 360 days in a year, instead of the present 365 days. This is only possible if the circumference of the world at the equator was smaller than what it is today. As a result of another polar axis shift, that could change again. When the polar axis shifts, a new equator will be created. When that happens all of the geosynchronous satellites will soon become just junk in the sky and most satellite-based systems will cease to function. The exception to that will be those satellites that have been equipped with enough fuel and rocket motors to move to the new geosynchronous location. If I can think of this, so can the government scientists and make appropriate preparations to keep at least some of our satellite assets in operation. Due to centrifugal force the seawater bulge around the equator contains cubic miles more water compared to the oceans north and south of there. When the earth’s axis shifts by any appreciable amount, the bulge of water at the equator will redistribute itself. It will “slosh”! That is where all of the tsunamis will originate and sweep around the world. Coastal regions everywhere will be devastated. From beginning to end, most of this will take place between a few days to a week. Things will have settled down within a month. There is a map of the U.S.A. circulating around the Navy showing the projected shoreline after the big event. If the new polar axis moves in the direction of Siberia, that means that the equator will move northward toward the U.S., which means that the equatorial seawater bulge will move closer to us and permanently put our coasts under water. At some locations near the present equator, the sea level will increase, and decrease at other locations. A new bulge of seawater will form around the new equatorial line which will “fix” water levels around the world to a new point of equilibrium. This operates as a counterbalance to stabilize the earth in its rotation around the new axis. The seas rushing around the earth to reach this new state of equilibrium is what will cause all of the devastation to the coastal areas of the world. Any structures below 100’ sea level will be destroyed. Anything between 100’ and 400’ will be damaged to a greater or lesser extent. Some damage is possible above 400’ depending on the distance from the equator and terrain features. Some of the tsunamis created by this event could easily exceed 300’ in height. This figure is from a History Channel speculation from a possible tsunami created from a volcanic landslide in the Canary Islands. After the initial damage from the tsunamis, the new sea level on the American coasts can only be speculated at. The navy map indicates that it will be between 250’ and 300’. That is an approximation that can be confirmed by a topographical map of the affected regions. Because it’s coldest at the poles and warmest at the equator, weather will permanently change according to the new distances from the poles and the equator. Keep in mind that there is no reliable data with which to accurately predict what is exactly going to happen, so there must necessarily be a lot of guesswork in these predictions. Hard data is only available to the government and they’re not talking.

    The effects of this are impossible to predict in detail because something like this has never happened in modern times and the records that do exist are not available or believable. When Rome burned the great library of Alexandria in Egypt, it is thought that the Romans removed documents that were of scientific and historical value to Rome where the last emperor became the first Pope of the Catholic empire at the start of the middle ages. Rome is not that far above sea level and a cataclysmic event that is predicted to destroy every coastal habitation below 100’ sea level, and severely damage everything between 100’ and 400’ above sea level means that the library in Rome is in danger. In July of 2007, the Vatican announced that they were closing the library and relocating it. A reason was not given! The Vatican knows what is coming and is taking appropriate action. All of the major world powers know about the coming events that are going to be a result of the climatic disruption brought about by the passing of the planet Nibiru through our solar system. Russia is hollowing out whole mountains to create shelters. The US has already completed at least a dozen major shelters. Walmart has built a shelter for it’s management teams (with families) and other corporate entities have been making their own very private preparations. The CIA has relocated from Langley AFB, Md. to Denver Colorado in 2007. The EPA has relocated it’s huge scientific library away from Washington DC (to higher ground no doubt). They all intend to come out on the other side of this period of time with the ability to rebuild and resume business with the remaining unprepared survivors. Isn’t that a wonderful thought? Why did the government need 700+ billion dollars without any serious accountability? Stimulating the economy was the excuse, but secret preparations for the coming cataclysmic events is the real reason that they needed “tons of money” to complete their preparations. Watch the DVD movie “The Day after Tomorrow” It quotes some very good science which is mixed in with science fiction. The attitude of denial is very accurate from the majority of people. The total rejection of bad news in the manic desire to retain “normalcy” is very well described in this movie. So what last-minute preparations need to be accomplished by the government? Interstate Highway 35 that goes from inside Mexico to Canada is one of the main items on the agenda. Why is this necessary? Because of the prediction that all of the coastal areas of the United States will be destroyed up to about 100 miles from the present coast. Whether or not these areas remain flooded doesn’t matter because all of the deep-water ports will be destroyed, which will “dry up” the majority of commerce. I-35 is, of course, carefully laid out to remain well above the damage zone, or new sea level. This highway will have ten (10) lanes open to traffic with two rail lines, pipelines, and fiber optic cables. I-35 will then provide access to the millions of acres of farmland in the western United States. The deep-water ports in Mexico will allow us to quickly resume trade until new deep-water ports can be constructed in the new inland seaway that the Mississippi river valley will form. It is projected to be from 50 to 100 miles wide in some places. It will cover the whole state of Wisconsin down to the new mouth of the Mississippi somewhere around the junction of Texas, Arkansas, and Louisiana. Most of the South will be underwater, as well as all of the Texas coast. Los Angeles, San Diego, San Francisco, NYC+, and many other cities will be lost.
    The world will suddenly be unable to support the population that we now have, at least for a while. We depend on shipping commerce to supply us with many things that we need to support our way of life. If, and when, this is disrupted, millions of people will die. Chaos will be total in too many places, especially in the cities. What other events point to the truth of this new reality? For several years now high ranking US Navy officers have been retiring in the Arkansas/Missouri Ozark mountains, especially Submarine officers. This upcoming catastrophe will affect the Navy in a big way when it happens. They will be major players on the world scene when some countries try to take advantage of the coming disruption and have been preparing for this for many years. When they retire, they move to safe havens like the Ozarks will be: High ground, lots of fresh water, good farmland with which to be self-sufficient, and not very close to any major cities. If we could somehow check on properties that the main government officials own or control, chances are that their “second homes” or vacation cabins are all located in high ground not too close to the coast or metropolitan areas. Many of them will be accommodated in the underground towns constructed by the government. The early deadline for all of this construction to be completed was December of 2010, but that has been moved up to the end of 2009. The year 2012 was a ruse by Al Gore and the other superior “dignitaries” to prevent panic prematurely. Other “official” timeline dates range from 2016 to 2050. Make no mistake, the panic and anger of most people, when it erupts, will make it almost impossible to make any further preparations by the government, for the government, and without the cooperation of us sheep people. That’s the reason for all of the secrecy! If the people of our country were made aware of this coming series of catastrophes shortly after the government found out about it in the 70’s or 80’s, the government would have had to compete with the public for resources and funds. It appears that our economy was maneuvered into a financial crisis in order to push through the so-called “stimulus package” in Congress. Now the government has funds to do some last-minute shopping with no accountability and not much worry about paying anything back. When the world economy collapses, the slate will be wiped clean and everybody starts over again. Our government’s preparations have surely been more than adequate to have a dominant role in the future. Our country’s population will have been pared down to a more manageable number and government doesn’t expect to have much of a problem keeping the survivors in line. FEMA and Homeland Security are very well prepared. Resistance is possible and that’s most likely why the Democrat/liberals have been pushing gun control so hard. When their dirty little secret is revealed to the world that the kind of life that our country has known during the last couple of hundred years is just about over, the rage will be enormous. That the government has known about this for decades is unforgivable. Another clue is the fact that most of the major suppliers of freeze-dried edible products have a waiting list of a year or two. The government is buying up whatever is available when it’s available. Another indicator is the fact the feds took over millions of acres of State lands and created the Bureau of Land Management (BLM). Why was this necessary? The great majority of the 155 million acres of those lands will still be above sea level when the flood waters come and the federal government will then be the largest owners of remaining land . Like I said; they’ve been preparing for this for a long, long time. Our countries first famous traitor, Benedict Arnold, did far less harm to the people of our once great country than our own government has done during the last few administrations. So why did the government choose to keep this a secret? The truth is that it would be impossible for the government to save everyone, so they made a bad decision to save only themselves and to prepare to keep the survivors under control once the worst is over with. When they come out of their holes in the ground, everyone will be “chipped” for permanent identification. The genius of the American people has always come from free independent individuals, not government, no matter how many scientists they can hire.
    This resource has been choked off by government secrecy and our people have not been given the chance to find effective ways to survive and help others to survive. In spite of everything, millions will still die off, so the government took the easy way out and insured their own survival. Their attitude is to let “nature take it’s course” and resume tighter control afterwards. The problem is just too big for government! Can you imagine evacuating everyone within fifty to a hundred miles from all coastal areas where the population lives less than 100 feet above sea level? That includes most of the Southern States and the coming Mississippi seaway that will go from what is now New Orleans right on up to Canada. The highest elevation in Florida is less than 100’. The Great Lakes will be just one big inland sea that will join up with the Hudson Bay.
    In this “free country” of ours the elected leaders of this country obviously represent only themselves at our expense. All of this hoopla about a possible “great depression” again is just a well orchestrated side-show. The banks! The Fed.! Pres. Obama’s heroic effort to save the country by turning us into a socialist utopia! All of this is intended to distract everyone from what the main event is going to be. The longer they can keep this ugly cat in the bag, the more time they have to prepare for the inevitable destruction that will change the whole world. They are the adults! We are the child-like ignorant sheep-people who must be led about by the good government shepherds of our land. That’s what we elected them to do, didn’t we?

    This is the way it will come about: Nibiru/Xena will come ever closer until it passes us, leaving our world in a mess. The gravitational effects will increase sun spot activity which effects our weather. The polar icecaps have been melting and the weather has been getting worse all over the world. This is the effect of global warming but not from anything that mankind has initiated. Seismic and volcanic activity has increased close to the north pole areas. Not only have some scientists predicted that we will have a shift in the true-north pole (the center of the earth’s rotation), but all of the known activity by the government to prepare for such an event is proof that the government truly believes that it is going to happen, and happen during the next few years if not sooner. The magnetic north has already been shifting several hundred miles. Where is all the water going to come from that is going to put our coastlines under water? Sea level is measured using the level found at Cornwall England. Thanks to satellite navigation instruments, we now know that the sea level at some points on the equator is as much as 490’ above the level measured at Cornwall. Due to centrifugal force and a few other factors, the seawater bulge around the equator contains cubic miles of water compared to the oceans north and south of there. When the earth’s axis shifts by any appreciable amount, the bulge of water at the equator will redistribute itself. It will “slosh”! That is where all of the tsunamis will originate and sweep around the world. Coastal regions everywhere will be devastated. From beginning to end, most of this will take place between a few days to a week. Things will have settled down within a month. At two locations on the equator the sea level will remain the same but go down at all other former equatorial locations. It is expected that the sea level around the United States will go up appreciably, and put both coasts under water. You can believe all, part, or none of this, and it won’t change a thing. What will happen has nothing to do with whether or not you believe anything at all.
    The liberal idea that truth is relative to the individual won’t carry much weight when NYC starts to go underwater. Even if the worst case scenario doesn’t occur, the world is in for a very hard time in the near future. Our Government and all of the many unelected people who run things behind the scenes have been very busy preparing for what they believe will happen. The evidence is everywhere to be seen – hidden in plain sight. Wouldn’t it be wonderful if we had all of the scientific data available to us instead of having to find out a lot of this stuff from guys like me? Wouldn’t it be nice if we could trust the government? Don’t feel too much anger towards the retired military men and women who are keeping this secret. They have been threatened with losing their pensions otherwise. Most of this information can be verified on the internet and I suggest that you do so and then decide what you are going to do to save yourself and your family (or you can stick your head back in the warm sand and ignore it all).

    3. The government decisions and the resulting ethical attitude.

    A. Keep it a secret or announce 30+ years in advance to minimize the fear and uproar? The question is: Which President was the first to learn about the existence of Nibiru and decided to keep it a secret? At this late date it doesn’t really matter but it was probably President Kennedy who led our country to put a man on the moon and stressed developing orbital assets. There is a theory that Kennedy learned about Nibiru from the Vatican and then set out to scientifically confirm what he could at that time. It was president Carter that consolidated several agencies into what is now known as FEMA. Whichever President was the first to get scientific confirmation of the coming world disaster, was the one that assumed the right to play god to the people who put him in office. This President clearly exceeded his authority and mandate to serve the people who elected him to this high office. This affects everyone in the world and nobody, or government agency has a right to withhold this information. The fact that this has been done is morally and ethically despicable. Each succeeding President has inherited this attitude and has perpetuated this horrible deception, all the while continuing to prepare for their personal survival and the survival of those they consider worthy of life. Are they doing this for altruistic reasons so our American way of life can continue on the other side of this event? The present President clearly intends to change our way of life into the failed system of socialism. This has absolutely nothing to do with the life that we have enjoyed as a nation for the last couple of hundred years. A socialist dictatorship is what we can expect.

    B. How to survive this? This is an area that I am not going to go into much detail with. To say the least: (1) Move to an elevation above 1000’ and not within the striking range of 300’ tsunamis. (2) Don’t be too close to any cities. When communications and transportation breaks down, the cities will suffer. (3) Try to store two years worth of basic food supplies and make sure it is in a safe place (that means you can’t tell anybody what you’re doing). (4) Start collecting small trade goods. When everyone is scrounging for food, water, and other basics, money is not going to be worth much but a box of shotgun shells will be highly sought after. (5) cruise the internet for other survival ideas and ways to prepare. There is still time to get ready for this and those who can keep a cool head and methodically prepare for the main event will increase their chances for survival.

    C. Who should be allowed to survive and who decides this? I would estimate that a great number of people who will be allowed a place in the government shelters already know this and are active accomplices to this crime against humanity. Of course this is not presented to them in terms like this, but in terms to let them think they are a part of some noble cause to save our way of life and perpetuating the American ideals. They have no idea that they will become the property of the rulers of the coming “brave new world”. Their incentive to keep this secret means life or death to them in the near future. No doubt there are lists of people who have skills and knowledge that will be vital, or at least very useful after the main event. In the movie (- – – – ), this theme was presented to the populace where a national lottery decided which families were to be saved. It could very well be that this corny idea could be tried by our government, but don’t expect any transparency in the selection process. I would also expect a large number of “specialists & technicians” to be among the “mole people”.

    D. Who’s in charge; “We the People“, or the government? The continuing cloud of secrecy that hides the coming of Nibiru/Xena and the resulting catastrophe is proof positive that the government has no intentions of letting ordinary citizens have a clue as to what is really going on. They clearly believe that the herd is incapable of dealing with this in a successful manner. Right now, today, they are right, because the Main Event is right around the corner and it’s too late to do much about it except to flee to high ground and prepare as best you can to survive. Had the government announced this as soon as they found out about it a few decades ago, it would have been a different story. We will never know what new inventions and processes would have been discovered as a result of the genius of “private enterprise” trying to come up with new survival techniques. Speaking of discoveries, you would think that with the advancement of science and technology would come an unending series of announcements proclaiming new discoveries, processes, and techniques. In fact, that rarely happens. Some of these things I read about in magazines but it never hit’s the national news. I have heard claims that anything new and beneficial is quickly bought out and squelched by either government and/or large corporations working with the government. The fundamentals of antigravity have been discovered and demonstrated! Did you know that? A new way of mass producing inexpensive, thin, solar cells, with a factory or two operating at capacity has been on-line for a couple of years. All of their output has supposedly been bought out by a foreign company. Do you believe that? The government attitude that they are the only ones who are capable insuring our survival is sheer arrogance and evil. This massive deception and fraud is further proof that they are not fit to lead our country.

    E. The ethical results of a bad decision! The underground centers that now exist will only be necessary from a survival point of view for 30 days or so for basic survival. After that, people will be moved out and assisted to become self-sufficient again as soon as possible. They will then be a regional headquarters and armed strong-point from which to direct and control the recovery operations as we rebuild our economy. The government will believe themselves to be in absolute control of everything. Martial Law will have been in effect well before the polar axis shift and the resultant catastrophe. We will be told that “things will go back to normal” after we get this catastrophe squared away. That will never happen, and individual freedoms will just slide into the memory of history. What will be the attitude of the survivors on the outside toward the government-protected “moles” that survived in comfort? What will be the attitude of the survivors of the immense hardships they went through toward the government? Should they take government orders? Will the government have any right to tell them anything? Do the survivors owe the government any allegiance at this point? The only control the government will have will be at the point of a gun, or other such threat. In spite of the massive loss of life, the moles will be outnumbered, but the government will be better armed. The surviving law enforcement entities will probably obey them in spite of the fact that they were betrayed by the government also. Homeland Security will be king! They won’t care about their poor ethical position as long as they have power over the people and what is left of the United States. If it ever came to an election again to elect new leaders after the catastrophe, the government knows that they wouldn’t have a chance of being re-elected, besides you don’t really need elections in a socialist one-party system. The media will be totally under government control and the dissenting conservative voice will not be heard. The ethical climate (resentment and hostility toward the government) during these times will be worse that how Southerners felt after the reformation.

    4. A government with a goal.

    A. Gather the facts but keep the secret at all costs! When the coming of Nibiru/Xena was definitely scientifically proven, I’m sure that there was a debate as to whether to announce it or not. The operatives of the secret societies and those under their influence won the argument. The less preparation that the general populace has for the coming events, the more upheaval will ensue. In the upheaval of social disorder and hardship it will be easier to hide the removal of obstacles in the form of honorable people, laws, and institutions that are in the way of their New World Order. This is the classic method of forced social change that has worked very well throughout history. So, gather all information possible on what is coming and insure that any possible opposition knows nothing at all until it is too late to do much about it. Those who must have access to this info but are not one of the insiders must be convinced that they are part of a noble cause to save our American way of life and they should keep this secret for the people’s own good. To disturb the common man at this point would just make things difficult.

    B. Find ways of funding this monumental effort! This is the easiest thing to puzzle out and unravel. Project Apollo, to put man on the moon, cost 25 Billion dollars over eleven years. That decision could have been determined by the knowledge of the coming of Nibiru/Xena, whether or not the information came from the Vatican or was discovered by Astronomers. Every secret spy plane (U-2, SR-71, Etc.) and the development of stealth aircraft was done in complete secrecy with funding in the billions of dollars. The big scare of the Y2K crash of all the world’s computers ended with a whimper, but again untold amount of money was spent to “fix” this problem before it happened. All of these things took billions of dollars that was not accounted for to the public. The question is; How much of this was siphoned off to fund the government preparations for the coming catastrophes that Nibiru/Xena will bring? Our Congress just handed this administration 700 Billion dollars also with no accountability. Nobody read it before it was voted into law. And even when it’s read after the fact, how much of it is truly going where this bill says, or is more money being shunted aside to fund this government’s survival after the flood, etc? Funding all of the government projects run by Homeland Security to prepare for this has not been much of a problem because of the gullibility of Congress and the American people.

    C. Gather materials and manpower to organize and accomplish this effort. The creation of Homeland Security was created solely to do this task. It was an idea promoted by Democrats in response to 9/11, but this $40 Billion a year agency that includes the U. S. Coast Guard, Border Patrol, and twenty other formerly independent government agencies is clearly best suited to organize and accomplish the completion of all the facilities it feels necessary to make the successful transition into the new world after the coming catastrophe. This 170,000+ agency is no doubt adding manpower daily in order to ramp up to the main event. Their contingency planning will include the assumption of authority over any remaining law enforcement personnel, park rangers, and anyone else who packs a gun and drives government property. For that reason everywhere you look these days you will see law enforcement driving new vehicles. Manufacturing in the coming times will take a while to start up production again so Homeland Security wants to insure that they have a fleet of vehicles that will last until new production starts up again in the future.

    D. Create major distractions to hide milking funds from the economy. Y2K was one of them. I would like to think that 9/11 was not one of those distractions, but I know a few people who believe that very thing. In order to bring about forced social change it is necessary to destabilize the country, any country. How do you do that with an extremely stable country like America? Hit them in the wallet! Take away their money. Take away their security. Take away their homes. Take away their jobs. The list goes on and on but I think you get the idea. We are in the process of destabilization right now. In no way is all of this happening accidentally and/or coincidently. The greater the uproar, the easier it is for the government to slide funds off to their pet projects.

    E. Covertly create the framework, preparation, and training for conversion to a police state when disaster strikes. When civil disruptions and protests get bad enough and/or we have another major terrorist attack and Martial Law is declared, one of the problems is getting American troops to put down American civilians by force. The solution to that is to involve NATO troops who will have no problem with suppressing uppity Americans with any necessary force. There have been numerous reports of foreign soldiers operating and training in our country in various out-of-the-way places. One can only assume that the necessary treaties, agreements, and arrangements have already been made to employ these troops to suppress American opposition. A free America is the main obstacle to a One World Government and these socialist fanatics will stop at nothing to achieve their goals. So the “framework, preparation, and training” has already been accomplished and is an ongoing thing.

    F. Keep our military busy elsewhere to prevent interference. Our military has been elsewhere for years now in Iraq and Afghanistan. Why in the world are we still in Germany sixty-four years after the end of WWII? Why do we still have many bases in Japan? Apparently the reason there have been so many military base closings in the past 30 years is that the government intends to keep a very large percentage of our military overseas indefinitely. If there is a draw-down of military overseas they will probably be a part of a force reduction. Otherwise there isn’t enough state-side bases to hold all of the military stationed overseas. Besides that, a large military presence of our own people cold prove to be awkward when Homeland Security starts to take over.

    G. Prepare for Martial Law when the secret gets out or the economy collapses. The planning and preparation for this is, no doubt, completed. As I have written elsewhere, hundreds of detention centers are completed and there are probably lists of other existing facilities that can be converted to this use. One of the main problems is; what to do with the excess population? Picture this: If, and when, word gets out about the impending flooding, increased hurricanes, typhoons, etc., people will all start moving to high ground. When the main event actually happens, there will be more people to feed and house than available resources can provide. That’s the reason for the detention camps. All of these people must be collected and disposed of one way or the other. One task set for this excess manpower is to gather and dispose of the millions of bodies that will line our coastlines. I would like to think that that is the reason some of these detention camps have large gas incinerators, thousands of body-bags and plastic coffins.

    H. Make gun control a priority to minimize resistance. This is one area that the liberal Democrats haven’t been too successful at. Presently the hue and cry for gun control is the massive criminal activity in Mexico that they claim is supplied with guns from America.

    The truth is that it is cheaper for these Mexican drug lords to buy their weapons from other sources than from our country. American weapons are expensive compared to other sources. Besides which, we aren’t allowed by law to have any automatic weapons for ourselves to sell to others across the border. The true purpose of gun control is to disarm the American people to prevent any effective opposition to the coming Martial law. Under Martial Law, abuses of power always occur and an armed populace will insure that our new masters will behave themselves, at least at the beginning of it.

    5. When it’s over with, what’s the world going to look like?

    A. Can you survive before, during, and after the main event without government help?
    To survive before and during the catastrophe you must position yourself to survive the coming natural disasters. This could entail 200mph winds of a few days duration; flooding; vandalism; government interference with where you want to go and what you want to do to prepare for this; earthquakes; volcanoes; and lastly, severe weather of all kinds depending on where you choose to hole up. All of our coasts could be permanently flooded. We will most likely have our dry desert areas become fertile with increased annual rain. Why do you think that the BLM gobbled up most of the available western state lands? Those acquisitions started in 1987 well after the government knew about Nibiru/Xena. In a word, get yourself an RV to live in and head for the high desert. Find a nice spot to rent and stake down your RV real good. Filling inexpensive sandbags would also be a good use of your time while waiting for the main event to happen. Cruise the internet for ideas about survival. The more food you store the better. What you don’t personally need you can use for trading. I don’t believe that money will be worth anything for a while. The best trading material is gun ammunition, alcohol, hand-tools of any kind, hardware, medicines (even aspirin), cheap portable AM/FM radios with lots of batteries, and any service or assistance you can provide that is not otherwise easily available in the post-Nibiru world. After the polar axis shift and the resulting calamity, we will still be experiencing bad weather and seismic problems until Nibiru/Xena has passed beyond the gravitational influence of the sun and our world. That will take a few years at least.

    B. What happens to “We the People” when government has absolute power? It is my personal opinion that the overall government intentions toward a free and independent citizenship is, and will remain, hostile. These people want a One World Government and see this as an opportunity to force this upon the United States. They really don’t care if we would never voluntarily vote for ourselves a socialist dictatorial government. When the government believes it has absolute power while they are cowering in their underground shelters, the rest of us on the outside will be doing our best to survive. Afterwards, the government will make the wrong assumption that people will continue to believe what they are told by the government just like right now, before the main event. Our present government is based on lies, deception, and withholding the truth about Nibiru/Xena. The one in the future will have no credibility and needs to be replaced at that time. It could be a peaceful transition or it could be an ongoing war that will last until one side or the other will be eliminated. Remember, we will outnumber them and their exact locations will be known at that time. We have always fought for our freedom and that will not change in the future. We the People have to prevail!

    C. Opportunity for the wolves and snakes. In my essay about Secret Societies, I refer to the fact that these secret societies have been around for a long time and that their goals are hostile to the freedom of our country. The only way to increase power and control is to diminish the freedoms of the individuals. When knowledge of the coming of Nibiru/Xena became available, the movers and shakers of these secret societies saw an opportunity to accelerate the accomplishment of their goals by many years, and jump straight to the end-game: total control. What better time to pounce than when the world is in total chaos from multiple natural disasters? If they can get the right people in charge when we are under Martial Law, their success is certain. The gleaning process has already begun. You don’t hear about it in the news but quite a few high ranking military officers have committed suicide. The ones who are honorable and incorruptible would be an inconvenience in the coming world order.
    I’m sure that others have found reasons to retire early or have come down with an illness or two and had to take an early medical retirement. You have to understand that these people are highly efficient at removing obstacles because they have been practicing this art for a long, long time. JFK was no exception!

    D. What role will the Constitution of the United States of America have? The Constitution, Bill of Rights, and the Declaration of Independence are three separate documents. The Constitution lists what the government can do while the Bill of Rights protects us from what the government can do under the Constitution. The government has been whittling down the beneficial effects of the Bill of Rights for many years. This trend will continue on until Martial Law comes into effect and the Bill of Rights will be effectively set aside, permanently. The excuse will be that the “Bill of Rights was written to fit the reality of over two hundred years ago but is not appropriate for our present trying times“, as if morals, ethics, and standards have an expiration date.

    E. Is there any good news in all of this? In God’s Word, in the book of Revelation, the “tribulation” is described in specific detail and there is a reference to what is called the “star Wormwood” and all the havoc it will cause on the earth. I am no scholar of the biblical end-times described in Revelation but the similarities between what is prophesied to happen, and what the coming of the planet Nibiru is going to bring about, is absolutely scary. However, I am comforted by the idea that even this is all a part of God’s Plan and that He is in control of all of it.

    • MB92083

      Is this a hollywood script for the next end of days movie?

    • OldPhart

      Kind of rude to post an encyclopedia on someone else’s blog. Perhaps you should set one up for yourself and provide links.

      • BS61

        I agree – plus, I always skip past the replies.

    • JR

      Thank you, Ray. Trying to evaluate this fairly…. First, you obviously aren’t trying to sell anything here, at least immediately – this is good. You have taken quite a bit of time to write – either you are a caring, Christian patriot, or there could be several other, less charitable explanations (ultimately trying to sell something, or perhaps misinformed – not saying you are, just trying to fairly evaluate your comments without knowing you.) You have an educated writing style, and argue cogently. Also good. Now, some questions/comments: Why would we need radios if everything is pretty much shut down? Why would I want to get sandbags? If the ocean rises, sandbags aren’t going to help. And all of Wisconsin being underwater? There are many different elevations in WI. Leaving out some of the taller mountain/hill peaks, are you saying this literally? If so, the sea level will rise 1,000 feet (I live in northern IL., and my specific elevation in a western Chicago suburb is 750 feet). So… some of this doesn’t make sense, or is unclear. You talk about ex-Navy folks in the hinterlands of Arkansas, but where do you get this information from? Put respectfully, how/why should the reader believe you? Can you provide sources? One would think there would be a lot of deathbed confessions over the years, but seems to not be the case. Can you provide links for other sources? The issue is we are routinely bombarded with all kinds of information, and the inquiring reader would like some type of corroboration – we only have so many hours in the day!

      Please take this comment in the vein in which it is submitted – with respect, but also trying to get to the bottom of the matter.

      • Vice

        Never heard of copy/paste?

    • mondobeyondo

      Whew, that was quite a read! Um… what did you just say? Please clarify.

    • babygirlway

      Wow. You are either insane or telling the truth. I can think of someone else that this applies to. Jesus Christ. I choose to believe Him. You might be right Ray, but if so, it appears there is not a lot I can do except to trust my Savior that He knows what is best for me. I would recommend you do the same as you seem a bit worked up. It’s amazing how calming it is to realize that ALL things work together for good for those who love God and are called according to His purpose.

    • Rhynn

      Wait! Did you say Xena’s coming? Is she bringing Gabrielle with her?

      Sorry man. I LOVE those broads!

    • Guido

      Now that is an interesting piece. I have some questions. First, have you read Emmanuel Velikovsky? His Earth in Upheaval seems to deal with similar ideas. I find it hard to believe there’s a real 10th planet that just randomly moves through the solar system every, was it 3,600 years? Why would something the size of a planet change the sun? If it passes that close, why wouldn’t it be pulled into the sun? If it can pass that close to the sun, how can it have such a strong effect on us? How big is it? What is its composition? If it’s real, you would think it was easy to track throughout human history with the variety and number of possible ancient cultures to study. Besides, if this thing is approaching, why haven’t amateur scientists found it yet? When can we expect them to see it? There are a lot of amateur skywatchers looking into space. They’re frequently the ones who spot and identify incoming meteors and other events, so I would expect someone to report such a find as an unknown planet on an erratic orbit headed right for us.

      Pole shift isn’t hard to believe. I know it changes every year. Recently, I read they had to repaint the guide numbers on, I believe, Miami Airport’s runways due to the radical change in the poles. Velikovsky wrote about pole shift and provided evidence to support his idea of a world-shattering calamities throughout Earth’s history. One interesting piece of evidence he referenced was the discovery of ancient pottery in Italy that had been baked at a time when the Earth’s magnetic poles were in vastly different locations. If Velikovsky’s right, a pole shift would be much more radical than just a few hundred miles of damaged or lost coastlines. Velikovsky described boulders geologically originating in Scandinavia on top of mountains in Switzerland. He described the discovery of jungle animals under the ice in Siberia. He also described the discovery of coral and a whale’s skeleton on top of a mountain in South America. So the idea you could move inland, even on top of the East Coast’s old mountain ranges, when the sea water from the equator comes knocking seems a little hopeful.

    • Guido

      As fascinating as your article was, the source of the idea of the Xena/Nibiru cataclysm appears to be:

      “Nancy Lieder, founder of the website ZetaTalk. Lieder describes herself as a contactee with the ability to receive messages from extra-terrestrials from the Zeta Reticuli star system through an implant in her brain. She states that she was chosen to warn mankind that the object would sweep through the inner Solar System in May 2003 (though that date was later abandoned) causing Earth to undergo a pole shift that would destroy most of humanity.” (From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nibiru_cataclysm)

      With a front man (or woman) like Nancy, the idea loses a lot of credibility, that is, unless you routinely get your ideas from self-proclaimed alien contactees with implants in their brain that let them talk to aliens in other galaxies.

      Apparently, Nancy claimed comet Hale-Bopp was faked to keep us from noticing Planet X. She also claimed Planet X would hit us in 2003, so the information is even OBE, or Overtaken By Events. She also predicted the 2003 event would stop our planet’s rotation in its tracks.

      I think we can probably safely discount this interesting article as highly unlikely.
      In fact, Nancy sounds like a complete nut.

    • ann

      Ray can we have the revolution instead? Thank you for such a fine piece of work as well as the time for you to share. I have heard of wormwood but never paid attention and relegated Nibiru/wormwood to the bin’s of sciencefiction ragtag’s. You make for a very convincing argument. You got my attention!My understanding of biblical prophecy is that the rapture will occur before wormwood or the many weather related event’s occurr’s.But sigh.i don’t know.That leaves me with one thought..live for the Lord Jesus Christ every moment..every day.It will be a day of rejoicing to finally be ushered into the loving arm’s of my Lord and SAVIOR.

    • Rowell

      Your information is a little dated there.

      The original planet was designated “2003 UB313” and was discovered in 2003 by Mike Brown of Yale University. It is a dwarf planet, approximately 1.5 times the size of Pluto and is about 97 AU’s in distance from the Sun (An AU [Astronomical Unit] is the distance from the Earth to the sun…about 93 million miles, which puts Eris about 9,021,000,000 miles from the sun). In 2006, it was officially named “Eris” (not Xena). From 9 years of observation, Eris is a member of the Kuiper Belt, meaning that its orbit keeps it at the edge of our solar system.

      Just wanted to inject a little fact into the speculation.

    • nutshell

      could you repeat this ?? lol

    • Bazza

      You’re a complete mong.

  • DM

    Paranoia is a way of life for some people

  • udont gettaknow

    those of you who say this is a move to drive up prices – relax – while emploied at remington i learned mixed centerfire ammo there is produced at 2mil rounds A DAY. and that is just one company.
    i agree that this is a long term contract and not a huge amount for a national police force.

    The Real question. Why do we need DHS and their poorly trained over motivated thugs with weaponds on the streets of america. we all ready have state, county, city and fed police ready and willing to violate our contutional rights.

    as for the fears of gun grabbers at your door. stay connected to you like minded friends – build a responce plan. should some of you be attacked – respond in force – armmed beyond reason.

  • No matter the reason, make this observation. Most of the replies here are consistent in that you are worried. When the population as a whole begins to seriously arm, something is brewing. Don’t be left out if something starts to happen. Learn to prep (www.readygoprep.com) before it is too late. I’m not being alarmist. I’m being pragmatic. When people panic, they take everything they can get their hands on.

  • Paul


  • sirbourbon

    How many of you thought that G.W. Bush was doing a good thing when he signed the bill creating the DHS? How may would not worry about the DHS if Santorum were to be elected? Newt or Mitt?

    I was at a gun show passing out literature that predicted the Department of Homeland Security would morph into a national police force. What I witnessed as I passed out the literature that warned of the creation of the DHS (not yet passed in congress) was that the second Amendment crowd for the most part were happy at its creation! Their answers back to me was “Bush is fighting the terrorist back” was the reply I got for my concerns.

    For the most part my pamphlets ended up on the sidewalk and trash barrel. That wasn’t all, one of the gun show hosts came charging out trying to chase me away. I was standing on the sidewalk outside the Lujan Bulding located on the NM State Fairgrounds where the Gun show was being held. I was more of a threat to them than the coming gestapo I was trying to warn them about!

    It’s amateurish to expect that GW Bush didn’t know what he was creating and it’s amateurish or naive to say that DHS is stockpiling ammo for a July 4th celebration.

    Guns and ammo are designed to kill people unless you are in cammo and you are heading out to the woods. DHS is not heading out to the woods seeking game trophies.

    I have no doubt that these folks back in 02 were pacified by the “usual suspects” of “conservative talk.” No mention of any harm ever coming out of the DHS by the Rush,Hannity and O’Relly,etal GOP suckups. it was mainly their influence that kept DHS bill on a fast track to the president’s desk.And these clowns still have the ear of the second amendment crowd!

    Hannity is too busy organizing “Good American” concerts to crack open the constitution and the Federalst Papers. The “usual suspects” of radio land never discuss the real enemy within- the policy makers of both parties that create phony wars so that phony solutions like the DHS are the “final solution!”

    • Dave Hook

      If you think Hannity and conservative talk hosts and the tea party are the enemy, you’re a fool. The threat comes from the left, from Obama and friends who have wet dreams about a civilian security force that is as powerful, as well armed and funded as the military. I’m no fan of Bush – he was a lousy president. But Obama is a hard core life long marxist and this was well known prior to the election, yet the sheeple took no notice. This type of stockpiling is consistent with the civilian security force plans. The threat is from his camp, the likes of which published the MIAC report branding conservatives and patriots as the likely terrorists, not the muslime who have made war of civilization for 1400 years. If you want a totalitarian state, vote for your little commie buddy again!

    • BS61

      I always knew that GB and the Patriot Act was a danger, but I was a Dem back then. When the Dem’s were taken over by progressives, nothing changed.

      The question I always ask both sides, was when did your values change? How could you vilify Bush and then think it’s fine under Obama? I knew that they were agreeing in the beginning because it was their guy in charge. People never seem to imagine what these things would be if the other side could hold it over them.

      • Rhynn

        These sound like the words of someone who realizes how ridiculous this partisan game of Family Feud the public insists on playing really is.

        To answer your question about when values changed? I’m going to go with 1913 – when the privatization of the money supply put the tools in place for the haves to leave the have nots far in the rear view mirror in terms of personal wealth, and to reduce them to pawns that can facilitate the increase of wealth and power.

        Since then both sides are comprised of the same thing. Old rich dudes. And the women who publicly love yet secretly despise them. Plus the one token woman per election cycle or administration they thrust out front to look diversified. They play a game, shifting public favor between puppets purported to represent different ideals, but who all dance to the same hand movements.

        The old white puppet worked until other factors forced them to turn one into a sacrificial lamb while plugging other holes in the dam. Then the country’s racial ratios became such that those puppets could not be effective, and they went with the puppet that half the country has been dreaming about as a historic breakthrough and the other half simply couldn’t do better than. A puppet that appealed to the “marks” like none before.

        My prediction is that now that racial issues beyond their control have wrested attention away from how badly their current puppet has disguised their plans, there will be a switch to a new puppet sooner than later. So many are disillusioned with Obama on both sides of the fence – and with the Conservatives becoming rabid, and refusing to see Romney as what he will be, which is identical to Obama, he will be pushed into the spot by idiots who will walk around for the first 6 months feeling triumphant, smug and superior once again until checkmate becomes obvious and it’s time once again to search madly for any scapegoat not in their bathroom mirrors.

        If you want to see an end to that, you will need to see an end to the American obsession with feeling superior to the American standing next to them. You will need to eliminate the American sense of entitlement that leads them to feel that they should be better than someone else merely because they showed up. The reason why is because they aren’t better in reality, and they can’t accept this, so the next best thing will always be to make someone else worse and triumph in comparison.

        While the public is doing that, the people who don’t care what any of them think will rape them for everything and every shred of dignity and humanity they have. And when all is said and done, this public will still try and find ways to congeal in the bottom of the barrel and yet be superior to anyone else down there. They’re just that stupid.

        • rob

          Wow! But oh I think they are even more stupid than that!

  • Bob

    It has been pointed out that, like gold, ammunition is a store of value. You could trade bullets for things you need. Time to get a cartridge re-loader!!!

    Lets all contact ATK and tell them to leave out the gunpowder in the bullets, so that when the government tries to shoot someone, the bullets won’t work.

  • Does anyone know why Home land security would build
    encampments that will retain, 140,000,000 people
    here in the United States alone, with coffins on site
    that will hold up to 150,000,000 liveless bodies.
    Sounds to me like imprisonment, kill, bury the evedience. Dead people don’t talk?????

    • sirbourbon

      “coffins?” Did Stalin and Mao stockpile coffins? The made their victims dig their own graves.

  • Brendan

    ummmm. thats 450 million over the next 5 years. thats not alot of bullets for them with their trigger happy selves. how much ammunition do you think they go through just in practice or field training alone and it aint always full metal jackets being shot

  • Martial law is coming, NDAA2012 authorizes indefinite detention for anyone considered a “terrorist”, domestic or foreign, without trial, without due process , and without any hard evidence. Obama ordered the UAV (drone) execution of Al-Awlaki, an American citizen, without due process. NDAA2012 authorizes the purchase of 30,000 unmanned drones for use in the USA.
    “Domestic terrorist” has basically been defined by several online documents. If you love the Constitution, liberty, and freedom from government intrusion of every facet of your life, you are a domestic terrorist!
    Service providers for FEMA camps built by Haliburton under executive order are now being selected and supplied for a 72 hour activation notice. Millions of MRE’s, 6×6 blankets, and underwater body bags have been requested by FEMA and supplied by vendors. New USA Detainee handbooks have been published and delivered across the country (look it up).

    The suspicion is out that a “false flag” terrorist attack (or more than one) is in planning for this summer in London, Chicago, New York, or Washington D.C. Add all of this to the fact that TRILLIONS of dollars have disappeared from DoD coffers since 911, and you have a recipe for coming Martial law, FEMA camp incarceration, dissenter targeted drone attacks, and “jackbooted” DHS roundup of citizens for “re-education”.

    Better start buying some guns and ammo yourself. That is unless you would rather stand naked in a FEMA camp in front of some loser like Janet Napolitano while they take turns putting a hollowpoints into your head and the heads of your neighbors.

    Good luck and God Bless

  • JR

    I don’t like this bullet purchase either, given all the BS going on with “the elite.” And that Utah Data Center is just creepy. However, I did ask a neighbor, who is a close friend, former Marine, retired state trooper, who also worked with the FBI during his trooper work, and is very conservative like most other readers here (i.e., does not like the nanny state, Jimmy Carter Obama, etc.), about this bullet purchase, and he responded as below (I copy/pasted exactly what he wrote):

    Believe it or not that is not a lot of ammunition. We used to run through 40,000 rounds per year for roughly 50 – 60 Officers. That is much less than you show, but a friend that worked at one of the nuclear plants once told me that they ran through that amount in a month. If everyone practiced as my program called for they shot every six weeks, to really get good you need to practice either weekly or bi-weekly. It may sound like a lot, but when you are running down an alley, exhausted, lights flashing on and off and loud noises and sounds everywhere not to mention they may be shooting back it’s pretty tough and your training kicks in.

    • I buy lots of ammunition for practice. I use target loads. Hollowpoint ammunition is reserved for self protection. They aree not buying these loads for training.

      • OldCyeKoe

        That’s what I was going to say. You don’t use expensive hollow points for practice – you use FMJs for that.

        • Vice

          You shoot what you carry. In order to ensure reliable feeding through your weapon. Also, due to different ballistics between FMJ and HP, it helps with accuracy.


    i’ve seen the some of the ‘HOMELAND SECURITY” boys shoot………if there are 331 million people in the United States ……….they actually need about 900 million bullets……

    unless they’re only gonnna shoot some of them

  • Cleo

    450 million rounds at DHS keeps the supply out of our hands.

    • OldCyeKoe

      Good point. Create a “shortage”. That’s why I reload.

  • Moose

    This is just anoher example of the excesses of the Obama administration. Who else would spend this kind of money for something it would take 100 years to use. You’ll see .40S&W caliber hollow point bullets on the bulk overrun market in a couple of years. Then the gun control nuts will demand it not be sold and all the government money wil be wasted.

  • Anna K.

    The UN Agenda 21 wants to reduce the population by 80%. This is how it will be done in Obamaland.

  • Leigh Grinalds

    The following article is about Homeland Security buying massive amounts of .40 caliber ammunition. The article seems to raise concern over the hollow point configuration of the ammo which is used by most law enforcement agencies. My question is why this amount? .40 Caliber is the primary caliber firearm used by law enforcement agencies at all levels as well is being a popular civilian caliber. What will the size of this order do to the cost and availability of this caliber as well as other calibers with the ammunition makers trying to fill the order. With the same appearing to occur with .223 caliber rifle ammo, the most popular civilian round, is this a back door gun control effort. If the ammo is only available to Homeland Security what will this do to state and local law enforcement who are responsible for protecting us. Remember this order does not include the needs of the FBI, DEA, ATF, and all other federal law enforcement agencies not under Homeland Security. When you compare this number with the population of the US it certainly makes one wonder!!!!!!!!

  • Raymond Thomson

    DHS consists of numerous agencies; FBI, Secret Service, etc. Every officer of these is required to practice frequently with a variety of weapons and to qualify annually. I keep a couple of thousand rounds for my handguns and often burn through 400 rounds in a session at the range. Taking all this into account, 90 million round/yr may not be all that excessive.

  • Cybernaut

    450 million rounds? Sounds like DHS is not expecting to be able to just walk into every house and headshot denizens. They are clearly preparing to have some actual firefights with armed civilians.

  • RichFromShowMe

    Janet Incompetano strikes again, or is she and the Justice Department taking the next logical Left-Step; i.e., following up “Fast and Furious” with free ammunition for our enemies?

  • Mindy

    “homeland security” is comparable to Hitler’s SS. I believe that Obama and his muslim handlers are planning to murder large swaths of Americans. In particular all Christians, Jews, Whites, Asians, Conservatives and anyone else that disagrees with his evil goals. Those in particular danger are the “white” Christians/Jews/Conservatives. Obama and his black liberation theology are all about revenge for percieved slights from the past, whether real or imagined and he and his collaborators will stop at nothing to achieve their goal, then they will turn on each other. Only advice I can give anyone is to prepare for the worst (including stocking up on guns and ammo) and pray for the best!

  • Guido

    For those who haven’t long memories, similar stories gained attention in the gun community back in the 1990s. Back then, the ATF, FBI, and others placed orders for huge amounts of ammunition, literally cleaning out the market. Back then, the big headlines were over the Feds buying up millions of rounds and all the primers available. I think it was 9mm. Ammo is a consumable item and they shoot a lot of it. Maybe not 450 million rounds a year, but unless someone has the text of the contract, which should be very boring, we don’t know the actual performance requirements. Based on the sparse info available, I doubt they’re getting 450 million rounds all at once. It looks like the number could be up to 450 million rounds over at least 1 year with a max of 4 option years. That means as long as they keep the gov’t happy, their contract can be extended out 4 years before being re-submitted for competitive bids. The actual number of rounds could be lower or higher. We don’t really know unless we see the requirements for contractor performance.

  • OldUntarnishedCopper

    I’d like to point out that by NATO treaties, the military cannot use hollowpoint bullets. Everything they use has to be full metal jackets.

    • Old Soldier 1941

      And the rules apply to who (or is it whom)?

  • Scott Schoemann

    I am so xick and tired of alarmist postingg like this. All done without any forethought, knowledge or even commonsense. So lets look at this example under a microscope:
    FIRST OFF AND FOREMOST Guido hit it on the head. This is an ON GOING CONTRACT… Can any of you say GSA? Look it up, I’m not going to waste the time explaining the purchasing policies that the government uses for SUPPLIES via the the Government Services Agency.
    SECONDLY The Dept of Homeland Security is an UMBRELLA AGENCY. That means there are many agencies under it, and most of them have ARMED AGENTS, and offices in EVERY STATE, and many states with MORE than ONE office. SO Now your 450 Million rounds has been divided down by MORE THAN 50 bringing that figure down to about 9 million per state, and that is PROBABLY over a period of FIVE years, the average of a typical GSA contract. Now that comes to 1800,000 rouds a year per state based on ONE office per state… and bear in mind that only takes into account ONE AGENCY, NOT Multiple AGENCIES that the DHS has under them. Now comes the part that we have to make assumptions on, based on KNOWN FACTS.
    B: FACT=Ammunition is kept at minimum levels per agent in the offices, in the armories and the agent is required to keep a minimal amount on hand for their madatory use, for the job and firearms qualifications.
    C: FACT= Every agent undergoes madatory ongoing firearms training, unlike local police departments which may or may not have such policies in place. This training requires live fire exercises, thereby using MORE ammo…

    Now if we are to just consider 200 agents per state, and 200 rounds per month per agent how long is that 9 million rounds per state per year going to last? At 200 agents practicing and qualifying with just 200 rounds each a month, that is 40000 rounds a month or 480000 rounds a year, in just reasonable practice. As a Civillian I shoot more than 200 rounds a month. This is not unreasonable, and it is not an unreasonable order for ammo. In fact, it is one of the most SMART moves the government has made in decades, keeping the WASTE of our tax dollars to a minimum. Any reasonably INTELLIGENT person would have sat down and broke down these figures as I have just done for you, before pitching a paranoid fit about it. Now remember, I gave an exceedingly CONSERVATIVE breakdown, using only one armed agency, and very LOW numbers of agents. The facts are those numbers are muvh larger, and are covered by existing levels of ammo that is on hand, and currently being consumed.This has never been hidden from us and was always in the open for us to see. But this report was politicized by someone who just wants to make us paranoid and split us up so we are easier to control… the comment “barrier penetrating hollow points” alone is a give away since it is a contradiction in terms, Hollow points DO NOT penetrate barriers, full metal jacket rounds penetrate barriers, Hollowpoints expand, limiting penetration. DO NOT LET YOURSELVES BE DECIEVED BY THE POLITICAL AGENDA TO DIVIDE AND CONQUER… This applies to ALL the “conspiracies” that create dissention from “chemtrails to 9/11” USE CRITICAL THOUGHT FOR YOURSELF!

    • Ptr

      Yo,Scott, so you say the HP-bullits stop entering your body, when they hit. Ah, Nice bullit, its nature is stopping itself from killing the target.It expands..

      I thought this ammo was abandend by Geneva, what do i know.

      Anyway, do not hear people talk about DU-ammo either.

      Peace, Ptr

      • Doug

        It is not allowed for military use, but for police and other “local” uses the Geneva accords do not apply.

  • Scott Schoemann

    ATK announced that it is being awarded an Indefinite Delivery/Indefinite Quantity (IDIQ) agreement from the Department of Homeland Security, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (DHS, ICE) for .40 caliber ammunition. This contract features a base of 12 months, includes four option years, and will have a maximum volume of 450 million rounds.

    AS I had stated… a five year contract. Anf if you READ it it is NOT even for 450 million rounds that is the MAXIMUM LIMIT.
    Again to break it down a base contract of ONE year, and includes four OPTION years. That means that they can extend the contract an additional four years beyond the first year (total five) up to a maximum of 450 million rounds, which ever comes first, 5 years 450 million rounds, just like a car warranty, ie 5 yrs 50,000 miles…

  • Childs, T

    Soros, that charming Czech patriot, is said to be buying significant amounts of stock in the publicly traded gun companies. That would also follow for ammo manufacturers. Our patriotic and Constitutional disparager Holder has made it very clear that on Obozo’s re-election, they are going to go after the Second Amendment and ammo manufacturers. By virtually dominating the ammo market bewteen now and January 2013 – they put a serious crimp in patriots buying ammo – until they close – or try to close – the door permanently.

  • guido

    I have to disagree with you, Childs, T. I don’t think ATK counts as dominating the market. I’m not an expert by any means, but I’ve never heard of them before all this. I doubt this will change anything, especially since .40 isn’t the most popular round by any stretch. In any case, if there were to be a change in the ammo supply, someone would step up to fill it. The Russians, Serbs, Koreans, Czechs, and others do an admirable job of keeping us in cheap ammo, as it is. In any case, if they’re ramping up production, or maintaining production, as this article seems to suggest, then there should be no loss to the rest of us.

  • Bill Lawson

    Target practice? It might be a good idea if those homeland security forces practiced at the range a bit before they “secured” our nation. The more they practice, the less chance they have of missing their ultimate target. I’m comfortable with that.

  • Chas

    Sad times were living in….Its also sad when people who write very long post dont understand that no one reads them if there too long.

  • Hunter

    Americans are moral degenerates. I am Russian, I say to you: you foment war across the world, you sow chaos and famine in Africa and the Middle East. Your troops are killing civilians, destroying their homes. Your government overthrows presidents of independent countries and sets out there of their puppets. You have destroyed my country – the Soviet Union! You forced me to starve and freeze to death! You assumed the oil throughout the world. Do you want to conquer the world? We will not allow it! You do not deserve life. You must die! And you will die! You all burn in nuclear fire. We, Russian, want peace, but without America, Britain and Israel. Die bastards!

    • WM

      Let me correct you. You are saying “Americans” which would mean all Americans. Your angry hatred is spewed upon Americans when it should be towards the leaders of this nation. A lot of Americans feel the same way that you do about our governments dealings with the world. Whats that you say? We voted these losers in? Sorry to dissapoint you, but the global elite is really behind the power in this world and chooses what “puppet” will be in the white house. The sooner you understand about the new world order and the coming one world system, the better off you will be.

      The vast majority of American citizens want peace to and wish our “leaders” would stop sticking their noses in everyone elses business.

  • Skip

    Thought the question was why all the Bullets for DOHS
    could it be just to keep them off the open Market?
    Or they are just lousy Shots?
    Whatever there is obviously something Nasty in the pipeline eh!
    Next Train “Camp Fema” worry about Obama,s Declaration the Constitution is a Flawed Document and appears hell bent on Destroying it?
    Did he not swear an Oath to Protect and Support the Constitution?(Traitor comes to mind)
    Land of the (Free) Slaves more like!
    US vetrans return home to be Labled terrorists?

  • anna

    American’s are learning more and more of their president and they are seeing how dangerous he is.I am amazed with those who claim he is ‘nice’. What man is considered ‘nice’ when he spend’s his life consorting with terrorist’s,communist’s,homosexual’s,child molester’s and get’s his ‘spiritual advice’ from a man who ‘damn’s America’?Under Obama..the misery index is higher than ever as well as fearing not only for their way of life but for their lives.Please wake up American’s.

    • Obama is just another politician. His every word, thought and action must pass one filter, “Will this help in the next election?” In that regard, he is no different that George W. Bush or any other president.

      For all the changes he has really made, he could be the chosen successor to “W”.

  • chefcale

    Ray writes a very detailed piece much is factual hiding in plain view FEMA Camps and coffins are real , just watch the Conspiracy Theory with Jesse Ventura ” Police State documents these fact very well as does Alex Jones documentary Police State Rise of FEMA ( free online) , as far as Nibiru goes it is possible , astrophysicists have calculated that 80% of the stars in the galaxy have a binary twin ( red or brown dwarf ) companion star , Nibiru could be just that our Suns companion in a binary orbit which is highly elliptical , a heavy mass object 4-6 times the size of Jupiter entering our inner solar system would make quite a mess with all the planets and there is evidence that it is not business as usual in the entire solar system ( do your own research no matter you agree with this hypothesis or want to debunk it you have to do your homework and decide for yourself) I am on the fence on this one and certainly hope Ray has it wrong……..but maybe he is right. For research you might want to try http://www.terral03.com , scroll down to the HMO , download the PDF , its loaded with scientific data which may or may not be accurate…..pray about it if you are spiritual or follow your gut if you are not…..either way come to your own conclusions………..my gut and my spiritual inner voice says keep your eyes on the sky…….but fight and expose the tyranny everyday may God bless everyone on this forum even the trolls and dis-info agents , you will soon realise you batted for the wrong team and will face Judgement

  • Sue

    I’m liken to a native being who sees the clouds, smells and feels the moisture in the air and says ” rain is coming “. I’m really Big on common sense, what do “I” know to be true. And I also know this commentary is for me primarily, as I process my personal direction.

    The number one indicator I always have felt is the weather storm indicator is the:

    1. Financial conditions. You can tell what’s going on by how we are lead with the carrot. One day I wondered where did all the banks go? 0% financing? Money soon will have little to no value, how do I know? the banks are saying so. A banker of one of the few remaining stores, asked me to put my funds in a longer, more interest bearing account. I replied “so I can make an additional $1 to $2 a year?” It was a histerical laugh, not a funny laugh.It’s like game is over.Ok we’ve had great depression and s&l go under but what about the coincidence of:

    2. The natural diasters. We can’t deny them.
    3. Ancient warnings including Mayans calendars stopping 2012, we can deny these but how coincidental
    4. Fema and HLS and human rights: I can deny,I haven’t “seen” them, but how coincidental
    5. Dumbing down of people: How have we become so techno yet so dumb.

    ok so what’s the plan for myself? If the riff of the world strategically planned for their survival(and if all is true, it only makes sense that they would),why would I care to be here, with them and with more of their nasty nazi values? Honestly,I haven’t been that head over heels about the way humans do life since I was born. Sure I went to church but it didn’t make sense. Yes I got the job, house and partners, the sky didn’t open up. I enjoyed myself and I paid for it. I learned that we have difficulties with cognitive synapses that leaves us all wondering what the heck? We have tremendous difficulties relating because of this. We all die at some point or another. When you’re at a bad movie,do you endure it to the end because you don’t want it to end? or decide its time to leave, go to a better place.UMM Decision time:don’t know if, when or where but today & for rest of my life:
    I choose to remember to live & die with dignity as often as I can and I pray that I am fearless and kind. For the days of my existence on this earthplane to be kind and at peace starting now. I’m done, finished wondering if it’s true of not or when if it does. Chicken little has retired. Bless you all

  • Hollow point bullets are in violation of the Geneva Convention and military use is forbidden. The ramblings of this gentleman are those of a very sick highly intelligent and delusional man. As a Texan and retired Army I can safely say with confidence that he is fulla **********.

  • pilf

    I wonder if mr mcgee has the sense to at least check his viewpoint for errors or updating? Everyone that believes this is nonsense should check and see if any trurth to any of this. The early 80’s NASA did a news conference announcing they saw something way out headed this way and never mentioned it again and also built infra red telescopes. There is a real scientist that has published a theory about this very thing. Supposedly a brown dwarf is visible in infra red only or something.
    I am blown away that no one has noticed the moon. Something has changed already. Has anyone noticed recently the moon has been a crescent across the bottom. Look up the phases of the moon and the navy has pics of the moon phases and there are none of a creescent moon across the bottom. This is much scarier to me than bullets. The crecsent moon has always been one side or the other. Never across the bottom and this would indicate either the earth or the moon has changed its orbit considerably.



  • The DHS plans on killing alot of U.S citizens.Thats what I think.

  • Roycerson

    4.5M bullets / 120K (federal law enforcement employees) = 37.5 bullets each.

    No wonder cops are notoriously incompetent with their firearms. That is not near enough bullets to achieve competency. This article was written by a complete gun retard. You asked in the first paragraph so I’m here to tell you. It’s just you. This is not a story at all.

    • Roycerson

      correction. 450M/120k = 3750 divided by 5 years = 750 per yr divided by 365 days = less than 2 rounds a day. Still not enough.

  • remember something,if and i think it isnt too far away that they will make a move,but a whole lot of the traitors who fire on americans,well they are going to die also.i guess when you run out of ammo just drop what you have and pick up one or more of theirs.its going to be a real brawl.but i dont think it will be a walk in the park as some of our arrogant leaders think it will be.look at Israel,libiya,syria and our government has been tryig to subdue afgans for what 9 years.will will just have to wait and see.as an american iam like patrick henry give me liberty or give me death,either way i remain free

  • auntsey

    450 million U.S. Citizens?

  • Doug

    First reading comprehension is still fundementally flawed in this nation. The article says UP TO 450 million rounds which means that they have the ability to order what amounts to be basically an unlimited supply (considering the size of DHS) of highly leathal low collateral damage rounds.
    How many of these bullets they purchase is still quite questionable, but these are really nasty ammo and unless you are using in a specific tactical environment where you don’t want the bullet to exit the target (e.g. an airplane) the only reason to use is you don’t want someone accidentally surviving being shot.
    All I can say is if the ***** hits the fans, very little of this will matter as we are currently in a world that is so interdependant that parts of this country would starve after only as little as a month of no food shipments. For 90%+ of the population it is cooperate or perish. So I refuse to acknowledge the possibility that the “preppers” are stockpiling for because I am not sure I would want to survive the fall of Western Society so I choose to beleive that we will find a way to keep cooperating even in the worst fo times.

  • Doug

    I just read some more of the comments here and it really makes me miss the old “The South will rise again” right wingers, because honestly except for a few places if “The South” wants to have their own country I say less low income people to support.
    I accept that things are might not be the way I see them, but I know that way too mnay people here are looking for doom and gloom. For the record President Barack Obama is not a commie or a muslim. He does not want to be a dictator or anything of the sort.
    This reminds me of the what I learned when I was younger, scared people vote Conservative. You are all being frightened into allowing the religious right and the corporate cronies to get the Republican party back in control of the Federal governement so they can make sure no one screws up the tax loop holes they dance through every year. Guess what when Obama was elected, the world didn’t change over night and if Romney is elected it will be about the same (except Wall Street will get better bonuses).

  • Roberto

    Hello Sheeple,

    Do not accept everything that you read at face value… If someone presents a statistic to you, think about what it means in real terms.

    The best information I could find said that DHS signed a contract to purchase 450,000,000 rounds of .40S&W ammo over 5 years. The .40S&W round is commonly carried by state, federal and local law enforcement. As an agency which tries to conserve its resources, DHS standardizes the weapons that it uses. This means that the vast majority of DHS folks will probably be carrying the same weapon and be shooting the same ammunition.

    DHS is a US Department, it has 240,000 staff of whom the best estimate I could find said approximately 105,000 are armed. Okay, so let’s break down the numbers.

    450,000,000 bullets divided by 5 years gives us 90,000,000 rounds of ammo per year being purchased.

    90,000,000 bullets divided by 105,000 armed officers is 857 bullets.

    So DHS is buying enough ammunition every year to arm each of its law enforcement personnel with 857 bullets…

    Ask an LEO who shoots well (in other words they practice a lot) how far 857 bullets gets them for practice in a year and they’ll laugh at you. For practice each year I shoot a MINIMUM of 1088 bullets. Throw in special practice and training and I probably shoot about 1500. So in fact, DHS is not buying nearly enough ammo to sustain the practice needs of its law enforcement personnel if they were to put as much effort into practice as I do. I’m kind of taking more than my fair share compared with them…

    Long story short, DHS is not stockpiling, they’re buying ammo to meet their current practice needs. If you want to simplify your supply chain, and you want your personnel to have the best training they could possibly have then you’ll have them practice with the same ammo they carry for duty use.

    Hollow point bullets are most certainly designed to be deadly. Should DHS buy bullets that won’t work? Maybe the people whining would like them to carry blanks? What would be the point of carrying bullets that don’t cause damage to humans and animals? LEOs rely on these bullets to protect them against bad people and dangerous animals. If they’re involved in a situation where they have to shoot to stop a threat they want to have the absolute best bullet that they can get because they want to go home at the end of that day, not to the morgue. Do you think the Secret Service should have to use rubber bullets when they’re protecting the president or that Border Patrol Agents who have to get in a shoot-out with armed drug smugglers should have “less dangerous” bullets? It’s ridiculous.

    If you believe that DHS is too large because they have too many people working for them then that would be the issue to focus on, but they’re actually buying a reasonable amount of ammunition given the number of armed staff that they have. Instead of actually talking about what they might believe to be the real issue (their feelings that DHS has too many armed staff) they’re manipulating you with a statistic that they expect you won’t look to closely at.

    THINK for yourself. If you don’t know, seek out information.

    • Jim

      Roberto, I see your comment was from 8 months ago. DHS has now purcahsed 1.6 billion rounds of ammunition with no apparent signs of slowing down. By your own math this is enough ammuniton for nearly 18 years of shooting.

  • Mike Walsh

    I believe no one has hit on the real reason for this ammunition purchase. And it’s more worrisome than tyranny as that can be fought!

    The government has bought almost 1 billion rounds of .40 S&W hollow point (JHP) ammunition, which is what most
    cops and federal agencies carry. It’s between the power of a 9mm and a .45 and almost equal to a .45 in striking power. But you don’t train with JHP as it’s 50% more expensive than what is called “ball ammo”. For those that don’t know ballistics ball ammo (a rounded bullet) can easily go right through someone and into a person behind. A JHP opens to almost twice as wide (so a .40 is opening to
    .70-.75″) and as the bullet spins about 16 times per inch it is expanding with what works like razor blades to cause greater damage. This is clearly ammo to shoot people with and is loaded in every cops gun. It’s safer to the public and more deadly if you need to shoot someone as it should not exit that person and find someone innocent behind them.

    I believe that this economy is held-up by lies and surely one scenario they have is hellish so my guess is that has prompted this purchase as the Central Banks work together to stop a decline and face The Law of Diminishing Returns and The Law of Unintended Consequences. Pension funds haven’t the money to make payments. Most based funding needs on 6-8% growth a year. And they hold 35-50% of their assets in the Great US Ponzi Scheme AKA The US Stock Market. A DOW at 7,000 means more civil service pension fund defaults and bankrupted cities.

    I do not think that law enforcement or the military would turn on the people, so I don’t think this is proactive as tyranny is coming, as much as Obama has trampled many rights as well as contract law when he called Chrysler Bond holders “greedy investors” and gave the UAW the rest for votes and power.

    Rather than conspiracies, I think this is reactive to a possible major shift in our future that includes Marshal Law under a scenario of an economic implosion. It’s unquestioned that Quantitative Easing does not work as an economic theory. Japan has proven that for almost 30 years. More money just slows the other money (velocity in the system. No GDP is increased by adding money. A drowning man needs no more water. All we did was build oligarchs under a criminal government where no one from MF Global goes to jail as of last week and Corizine starts a new hedge fund as Eric Holder’s top lawyers are from a White Collar Crime Law Firm which has defended all these “banks” (a big mistake to allow that status to change) and will not investigate former clients who are of great need to them personally.

    I wonder if a silent government think tank (one that plays our war games) has given a depression and a breakdown as a very distinct possibility, and that is the reason for stocking all law enforcement with ammunition?

    If you didn’t know it, about 6 financial concerns own the entire manufacture of ammunition in this country. And George Soros is one of them. You don’t fight an invasion with handguns and that’s about 3 bullets for every American they are buying.

    There’s a lot of speculation as to why this is being done. I don’t think it is tyranny. What is left to me is financial chaos and disorder. I hope what it really happens to be is just plain over-reacting and dumb.

  • Im very concerned with whats happening as we read and reread all the blogs,i beleive that all members of both parties have the same agenda except ron paul for the destruction of the constitution,so what i do i buy ammo and more ammo for i have taken an oath to protect this country from all threats both foreign and domestic…… prepare for the worst and hope for the best

  • Dark Humor

    Snicker. Maybe they’re so paranoid about other countries coming to collect on the debt that they plan on doing what the USSR did- rally the citizens into a militia with a “draft”, shove guns in our hands and send us into the fray. I’m sure they could come up with a way to legally explain the use of the hollow points by saying “there are no such restrictions on a citizen militia using them as it is a civil defense force and not our uniformed federal military” or some bullshit like that. 450 million bullets could arm a militia more than a million strong. They could almost double the number of bodies at their disposal with barely trained citizens. Sounds like a plan corrupted, crazy, paranoid politicians would come up with.

  • not buying the bs

    IDIQ contracts are just that. INDEFINITE QUANTITY. They didn’t and aren’t buying 450million rounds but needed something for a cap on the total quantity in order to fill out the procurement paperwork. If they end up only needing 500,000 rounds, that’s how many they will buy under this type of contract arrangement.

    • trek_rider

      That sounds very reasonbable. But, if true, why doesn’t DHS just say so? The fact that they haven’t repudiated the story says that it’s true – they’re actually buying these incredible amounts of ammunition.

  • Repfor8

    I think the world governments saw a asteroid comming and were just preping for total chaos …looting…mass panic…food shortages. They knew that the asteroid was heading to earth. You tell me they could see the big brother 150 feet across but they couldn’t see the one right next to it 50 feet across…the us government knew shit was gonna hit the fan so they lied about gun violence to try to heed guns in public…I mean what’s more crazy than one group of people with means to kill another group in a calamity…food shortages ect…buy up all the bullets if they can’t get the guns a now you know why the govt did what they did. But they didn’t know that the meteoroid would be destroyed by an alien force that has protected earth since the development of mankind…the council of 8 authorized it … Is slowly introducing themselves to us…I know it’s hard to believe …but do you really think we were alone. Did you really believe cave man built machu pichu and the pyramids of gaza and the megalithic marvels on Easter island? How do you explain the UFO surge over the last few years over major populated cities…lights in the formation of a triangle are very common. I don’t wear a tin foil hat…I just know that we have to not rely on our govts so much because…well they knew an asteroid was comming and they bought bullets…not food and shelter….time for a new us goverment…hopefully not by force

  • ChanW

    I dont think it has anything to do with The Dept of Homeland Security needing the ammunition. I think it’s about who they want to keep the ammunition away from. Namely us, the American people. Maybe they see an asteroid coming, maybe a currency collapse and a Civil War is coming or maybe it is part of Obama’s gun control plan.

  • OK think this way bush had oil what is to say obama doesnt have a interest in ammo or guns. This would make since, he makes a ton of money on the sales and doesnt have to even work for it.

  • off the grid american patriot

    There are two reasons I can think of
    #1 They are buying up all the ammo becuase they do not want us to have it

    #2 They are planning a Red Dawn situation (only it will be the US government instead of Russians Cubans or North Koreans)

  • Obvious

    Maybe because you Americans insist on your rights to have so many guns and access to body armour- So the department needs to step up their offensive capabilities to counter the threats your own citizens face to your nation.

  • Al Sharpton

    Long live the king of new AFRICA KING Obama

  • First, hollow-point bullets are forbidden in almost all police departments and, by international convention, for the military, too. So the question is even larger than is apparent.

    It isn’t as if any rational person still believes the USA is a free country. Think about it. No-warrant wire taps, indefinite detention of citizens without charges, approval of rendition of prisoners and torture, stop and frisk without probable cause, search and seizure without a warrant, no-knock entry, confiscation and destruction of cameras that might have been used to film police acting illegally, police brutality, police shootings that go without investigation, managed news, and the civil-rights destroying “Patriot” Act.

    Acts of police behaving illegally, with shootings, Tasers, and unwarranted violence now appear almost daily. Rarely are these offenses punished. Most often “an investigation” is claimed, but soon forgotten.


In addition, the USA, with 5% of the world population, has 25% of all of the prisoners in the world. That means the USA has the most people in prison of any nation in history. Even by percentage of residents incarcerated, not just sheer numbers. USA is # 1!

 Does any of that sound like a free country?

    As Dwight D. Eisenhower said about communism, “It’s like slicing sausage. First they out off a small slice. That isn’t worth fighting over. Then they take another small slice that isn’t worth fighting over. Then another and another. Finally, all you have left is the string and that isn’t worth fighting over, either.